Episode 256: Logan Gilbert Returns + Wrapping Up Rafael Devers Thoughts + MLB Draft Spotlight #11

[00:00:00] Tired of the price of everything going up these days? Groceries, rent, you name it, it's all going up. But not at Metro. They've got your back. Metro has lowered their prices and are giving you a five-year price guarantee on talk, text, and data. One line, now 20% lower. Family plans, also lowered. Oh, and you also get a free 5G phone, all with no ID required and no activation fees.

[00:00:24] Stop by your neighborhood Metro store, visit MetroByTMobile.com or call to find out about their amazing offers. Bring your number not available if currently at T-Mobile or with Metro in the past 180 days. Guarantee covers monthly price of on network talk, text, and 5G data for customers activating on an eligible plan. Exclusions apply. Details at MetroByTMobile.com. Welcome to episode number 256 of the Marine Layer Podcast. We have a lot to catch up on over a whole weekend and week of action. The Mariners sweeping the Guardians.

[00:00:54] The Mariners game one loss to the Red Sox. Logan Gilbert returning to the starting rotation. And our number 11 MLB draft spotlight. Your guys reminder, if you want to stay on top of all of our stuff, you can do so over at our website. That's MarineLayerPod.com where everything's there, you guys. Love to see you rocking the merch. We'd love to see even more people wearing more of it. So if you want some summertime gear, you can head over to our website, get everything you need. It's right over there.

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[00:01:59] And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network. Recording on Monday evening, June 16th. Lyle and I got back from the ballpark a few hours ago and they did not score a run while we were there because the game wasn't going on. And they didn't score a run after we left. But at least we got to see Ebtoro today. At least we got to see what? Abe? Oh, your guy. That didn't come out clean enough.

[00:02:28] I told you to go talk to him today and you refused. For good reason. Why? I know there are a number of people in the ballpark you refused to speak to. Well. I have my reasons. You have yours, right? I think Abe's a nice guy. He'd love to talk to you. Abe could be the nicest guy in the world. I could come away from a conversation with Abraham Toro and be like, I'm blown away. He could be one of those players.

[00:02:57] He could be like, let's rattle off a few of them who have been just incredible when we talk to him. Of course, all our guys on the Mariners. I mean, we talk about Gabe Spire, about Emerson Hancock, about Logan Evans. Ryan Bliss is that way. I thought Aaron Nola was that way. Pablo Lopez is that way. Give me another name. Max Scherzer was really cool when we talked to him. Max Scherzer was really cool. Well, yeah. Like, there are a number of guys out there that are, like, that are extremely cool. But you just have to go up and talk to him and find out.

[00:03:26] Abe could be literally a nice person on Earth. He had his huge smile on his face at the ballpark today. Clearly, it was because he saw me. He saw his arch nemesis in the ballpark and was like, ha! Who's laughing now? Now, I'm starting at first base and I'm dominating. Well... You two did make eye contact. Whether you admit it or not. Eye contact didn't last that long. Well, I saw it. You two locked eyes. It's like destiny.

[00:03:54] He has liked one singular post of ours on Instagram. And it was you suggesting they should bring him back. The sarcasm did not make its way through the post to Abe. Yeah. So, for those who don't remember, TJ did put out a quote in the offseason when the Marys were trying to figure out second base. And TJ said, and I quote, sounds like they should bring back Abe. Which all of you loyal listeners that are sitting here listening to this episode or many past episodes

[00:04:23] know that that is as sarcastic as it can possibly get out of TJ's mouth. But, when Abe Toro sees it on a quote card on social media, I don't think it resonates. So, he thought to himself, man, the Mariners need me. And the Mariners fans want me. And I've got supporters. And he liked the post. I continue to say the most ironic thing about this entire situation is that Abe Toro is the perfect fit for what the Mariners need. So, deadline.

[00:04:52] And he wouldn't be that expensive, too. Multiple people have been DMing us about it. The Mojo guys keep DMing me. Y'all keep DMing the pod account on Twitter and are saying, so, TJ, what are we thinking? Should I? I might just expose our DMs right here. Let's see. Let's see what we're getting harassed. I might block them, to be honest. I might take some drastic measures against Joe and Colton to make sure that this doesn't get out. Let's see.

[00:05:22] So, boys, is TJ going to interview the honest bull tomorrow or not? Yes. No. No, he's not. Joe says, I said today on the pod I'm unsubscribing if we don't do it. Well, thank you for listening, Joe. Appreciate it. Thank you, Joe. You know what I'd say. Let's see. Squash the beef, TJ. He may be a Mariners trade target in the month.

[00:05:52] Eyeball emoji. Eyeball emoji. Colton. What would you honestly do if they trade back for him? Well, I already made one bet. So, let's finish the series first before we start a new one. Okay? And by the way, he was really close here on Monday. He had a hanger out over the plate against, who was it? It was, I think, oh, it was against Logan.

[00:06:17] Yeah, in the fifth inning, I think, he sticks his bat out on a hanging slider and it was fouled by maybe 15 feet, but like three rows up. I. I'm not even, I'm not even asking you to make a bet. I'm just. Yeah, you are. I'm not. You are. The words out of your mouth were, so what are you going to do if they trade for him? That's a bet. Yeah, I don't even mean that in the way of a bet. I mean, how are you going to mentally prepare yourself for this?

[00:06:46] Like, how are you going to deal with him being back in the org if he's back? Sounds like a lose-lose scenario for everyone. The Mariners get worse and it makes our presence at the ballpark that much more awkward. Then we'd actually have to get him on the mic. And listen, I have no problem backing up what I have to say because I wouldn't say something on here I didn't believe in if I misspoke. I would come out here and I would rectify it and I would say, I'm sorry I was wrong, which

[00:07:15] I've done on here before. But look, man, I don't want to choose to face the music if I don't have to. This scenario here would be me choosing to face the music against Abraham Toro. I think at some point he needs to get traded back, he needs to come on the pod, and you need to tell him, hey, I'm ready to bury the hatchet. I just want you to know you were, and I quote, the worst player I've ever seen when you were here. What if he agreed with me?

[00:07:46] Dude, you'd have to get his jersey at that point. You'd be like validated beyond all like hell. I would promise I would buy his jersey. I'd even, maybe I'll get a patch on it too. I'll get a vintage one and customize it. I'll go to our friend Stitch God and I'll have him make me a custom 13 jersey. And is the patch going to say worst player ever?

[00:08:10] It will say sarcastically worst player ever, but it's going to have stuff from the Mariners. It's going to have stuff from the Astros, Brewers, and Red Sox on there at this rate. Got to have all of his best teams. If you say so. I would do that. All right. I'm unaware of how much Stitch God charges for his jerseys, but if Abe Toro is fine and agrees with me that he was the worst player of all time, validating my opinion, which

[00:08:40] by the way, I'm not the only person who thinks this, about his tenure with the Mariners, especially in 2022. Then, well, here we are. Oh, I mean, I've learned, I've learned as of the last few months that I know somebody that has almost as equal hatred for him as you do. And he's much more famous. It's Brock. Yeah, exactly. Like Brock can't stand him. I don't think he clears you, but he can't stand him either.

[00:09:12] Yeah. Two more games left. Prediction. As this episode comes out on Wednesday. So there will be one game between when we're recording and when, when this comes out. If you're going to make a prediction right now, Lyle, for our tone on Friday's episode, whether or not this bet comes through. Yes or no. Yes. The call's always yes. You have to go with the people to see you rocking that thing on this show and around the park.

[00:09:41] Remember the contingency of the bet and we can pull up the soundbite if possible. I'm not supposed to buy this. Somebody needs to buy it for me. Well, potentially Karabas. Hmm. Yeah, he might. He said he would send me one. So. And I will always take something from Jared Karabas. Shout out to him for, you know, coming on here before that trade. Having more time to think about it. It's been 24 hours, Lyle, since you and I had to sit down and record our Monday episode.

[00:10:10] We're 30 minutes post Rafael Devers trade. Thinking about. Yeah. What does Jared feel like right now? What do Red Sox fans feel like right now? By the way, being at the ballpark today, that's what it must have felt like when the Mariners traded for Abe and traded Kendall Graveman away. That's what it must have felt like. I'm serious. We're trying to do bullpen banner stuff today. Our other national trivia channel. If you haven't checked it out, go check it out.

[00:10:40] By the way, bullpen banner baseball on all social media accounts. Extremely fun content. Yeah. Yeah. We'll usually split time between the two dugouts at the ballpark. We'll get our Mariners content. We'll shoot video of Dan Wilson. Talk to some of the guys. Great conversation with Emerson Hancock here on Monday. He's in a great mood. Congrats to Emerson, by the way. He is expecting a baby boy in November. Awesome. Cool for him. But we also try and I'll go spend some time with the road teams dugout and interview some of the road players. Yeah.

[00:11:09] There were no Red Sox today. We've only been doing this about five, six months for anybody unaware. And through five, six months, it's been a blast. So if anybody's interested to check it out, you should. But yeah, the Red Sox didn't have batting practice today, which could partly be because they just flew cross country and are playing Sunday going into Monday with a cross country flight and no off day. That could be part of it, but I wouldn't be shocked if part of it is because they just traded away their best player and it's a new vibe around the team.

[00:11:37] And I'm sure that, you know, that people have to kind of take to this accordingly. I'm not that shocked. The Red Sox didn't hold BP. Need some time to process. Guys could be in a bad mood. We saw some of the infielders out there today. They took ground balls briefly. You know, the pitchers through as they always have to because they have a routine that they need to stay on top of. But man, I mean, there was I mean, Alex Cora didn't. The manager usually speaks.

[00:12:04] The road manager usually speak about two hours before first pitch. Dan Wilson usually speaks right at three o'clock. So about three and a half hours before first pitch. Alex Cora spoke at 530. That is no extremely late. And I don't think it was a usual manager session. It was all about Devers. Yeah, exactly right. It just it was weird. That's what I imagine if we were doing this podcast in 2021 and we're at the game after

[00:12:32] Dylan Moore hit the Grand Slam and Kendall Graveman shows up in an Astros jersey the next day. That's probably how it felt. Probably. And then you would have also had Kyle Seager just screaming and throwing everybody under the bus. But yeah, that too. And we can't we have no way to of knowing if that happened in the Red Sox dugout. Right. Some weird stories come out after the fact. It's a little less surprising they traded him now having a little bit more time to read about this stuff, but still kind of wild. Well, do you have anything left to get off your chest?

[00:13:03] Have you had some time to decompress now the last 24 hours? Well, the Mariners lost here on Monday. Two to nothing. We didn't even get to that. That was brutal. No. But in terms of the Devers thing, I mean, I'd say I'm a little calmer about it than I was 20 minutes after the news broke when we hopped on and recorded and I was just absolute like explosion in live real time because that's the best way I could put it after the Devers after that Devers trade. Yeah, I exploded about it because the Mariners should have done that.

[00:13:33] They should have been in on it. They should have traded for him. I know that around the industry, people didn't know that he was available and they didn't know that he was going to get traded. There's always an excuse, man. There always is. So like every, every star that the Mariners could ever had and didn't get, there's always an excuse. And yet they fall short every year except 2022. So, I mean, there's a couple other things I could get off my chest. It's I mean, I think I'm to answer your question calmer about it now.

[00:14:03] Is that fair? I do think the premise of that is right. Usually, right? There is an excuse. Sometimes it's valid. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes, as we always say every offseason, and I'm sure Lyle will have plenty of time to talk about it in this offseason as well. Some players don't want to come all the way up here to play. They have no interest in that. But with trades, it's just so much different. So you always, if a player is available via trade and you and I can pretty confidently

[00:14:31] say, I think the Mariners have more trade ammo. Than any other team in Major League Baseball. You would hope that if there was an opportunity, you just know that even if you're making a bad deal, you have the ammo to go make the deal. And this is something that you thought we both thought the Mariners should have done. Because it's to the point where you need to take on a deal that might be bad in an effort to win right now.

[00:14:57] Because going by the book and trying to win the trades and try to equal value out everything doesn't really work that much. And it comes, a lot of that comes off the premise of some of the stuff we're reading from the Devers trade. Where you had multiple writers coming out after the fact and saying, look, if you pulled the other 29 executives in baseball, what would they tell you about Rafael Devers' contract? They'd say it's a bad contract. Because he's DH. That's what they'd say. Objectively.

[00:15:25] That's how the baseball worlds view it. So sometimes you might have to go against what the numbers say in an effort to make an impact, say, this season and next season. While he's still young enough where his bad physique and his DH-only profile doesn't hurt you as much. As opposed to when he gets to, say, I don't know, 34 years old. And it's a little bit more impactful, I'd say. Yeah. And you deal with it at that point.

[00:15:55] Because if you've gotten prime Rafael Devers, that's what you paid for, man. That's what you were going out to get. Not the guy he's going to be at 34. You're paying for the guy he's going to be at 28. And all the more reason I was probably up in arms about this is the point you just made. Mariners don't sign these free agents. And we can get back to that point in a minute. But Devers didn't have any sort of no trade clause in his contract. If he was traded somewhere, he had to go.

[00:16:22] So the Mariners had no chance to sign somebody like Rafael Devers when he was, well, he never hit free agency. But had he, there was no way he was going to sign Seattle. And again, I'll get back to that point in a minute. But you have a chance to trade for the guy where he has to come play for you. And again, I'm shocked so many people didn't pick up on this concept because I had so many, we had so many people commenting about our comparison to the 28-ish million dollars being

[00:16:50] paid to the two Mitches this year versus the 26.3 million dollars on average that would be paid to Devers over the next nine and a half years. And people saying, well, the Mitches aren't under contract for 10 years and this is only for one year. And like, this comp makes no sense. It's like, guys, the Mariners are clearly saying in X given year, they are okay dishing

[00:17:14] out 27 million dollars to, by the way, two guys who were essentially DHs that are not hitting. One of them's not even on your roster. You deemed one of them to be so unproductive that you would rather pay him to not play here. And if you're willing to pay those guys to put up like negative war or at best like 0.2 war, then you should have no issues paying one of the best hitters in baseball for the next nine and a half years to play for your team.

[00:17:44] That's the comp I'm making. It's not about the fact that Hanager or that Hanager and Garver are or are not on some 10-year deal. It's about the Mariners are saying, we are okay allotting 27 million dollars, 28 million dollars to assets that are going to be DHs. And by the way, again, those guys objectively have not been productive. Devers is one of the best hitters on the planet.

[00:18:10] I'm not really sure how that got so debated, I guess, in our comment section over the last day. There were plenty of people, though, who didn't see that deal was worth it. Which again, man, if you're and well, and I will say the reasoning for a lot of people is there are some people who would rather pay some of the players on this current roster rather than than Rafi.

[00:18:37] But the thing is, I would say personally, the thing is with that, it comes back to how you and I are viewing the next season and change. We're like, yeah, we want to pay those guys for the future and to produce, but you're not going to pay them this year. And you'd rather win a lot this year and then worry about the problems in the future. Don't worry about them now.

[00:19:01] Yeah, doesn't matter what 28 or 30 or 32 or 34 looks like matters what this year looks like. But does the comments that just mind boggle me the most are the ones that say they don't want him because they're worried he's a he's a locker room cancer and a clubhouse cancer guys. Look, everybody's entitled to their own opinion. You want to know what mine is on this? You know whose issue it is to deal with a guy being a clubhouse cancer?

[00:19:31] Which I'm not even convinced that Devers is. I think he is his I think his relationship in Boston was just kind of done. I don't think he's going to be a problem in San Francisco. He's already said, I'll go play the field. Anyway, you know who I like, you know whose issue it is to worry about clubhouse things? Players, managers, front office. Like, why would you as a fan be worried about Rafael Devers being or not being a potential clubhouse cancer?

[00:20:00] You're not in that clubhouse. All you should care about as a fan is him getting out there every day and hitting bombs and putting up a 900 OPS. That's all you should care about as a fan. Like, how are like unless stuff literally leaks out again that there's problems with Devers in the clubhouse. Like, why are you worried about that on a regular basis? All you should be worried about is the team hitting and winning. The only thing you should be worried about in that sense is if it makes the team worse. I don't think he's enough to make the team worse.

[00:20:29] Like, the Red Sox aren't worse because Rafael Devers doesn't get along with people in the Red Sox front office and says he doesn't want to play first base. That's that wasn't making the Red Sox a worse team in that sense. And that's where all the beef was. I don't think he's going to beef with Buster Posey like he's going to beef with the with with Craig Breslow and Sam Kennedy and God, who's the whoever the whoever the principal

[00:20:58] owner of the team is John Henry. John Henry. Yeah, but he's not going to I doubt he's going to beef with them as much as he beefed to the Red Sox and it still didn't really affect him. The reason the Red Sox didn't win is because there's not enough good players around him. The pitching is super inconsistent, et cetera, et cetera. Like that was it. And that was probably as bad as it gets with Rafi. Dude, speak of Craig Breslow. Before we get to Breslow, I will say it's not like Rafi has perfect character. And I don't mean this in like an off the field way.

[00:21:27] You saw the David Ortiz quotes. Yeah, you want to fill people in? The David Ortiz quotes was essentially I don't remember where he was doing the interview, but he comes out and says today here on Monday. Look, I've tried to like communicate with Rafi and talk to him to try and give advice and and and just be big poppy to to to Raphael Devers and Ravi wasn't communicative at all. Back to him. Not at all. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

[00:21:57] Like, look, we don't know all the details of that. But, you know, I feel like if a Hall of Fame player reaches out to you and is like, hey, man, what's up? Speaking of, you know, Hall of Fame players, guess who's at the field today at T-Mobile Park? Ken Griffey Jr. Hanging out, hanging out in the dugout. Emerson Hancock went and gave him, shook his hand, gave him a hug. Great. Guys like that show up. Listen, it doesn't feel like it's that much, especially when the team has given you the

[00:22:25] contract to say, hey, you were up there with those guys. And it's you know, it's not really that. And then on on top of on top of, you know, the relationships with everyone else, it just is what it is with Rafi. So. So, again, this comes back to a couple things. Number one, I would still do this in a heartbeat if I were the Mariners, because they're not good enough. No. And you need somebody like Rafael Devers. Hundred percent.

[00:22:54] So, like, again, like, and this goes back to the point I wanted to circle back to, which is there always being an excuse and the Mariners with free agents. I'm sure what the Mariners would tell you about this is if I had to guess, they would say, yeah, we didn't know Devers was available and we didn't have a chance to trade for him. There's always an excuse, man.

[00:23:22] Even by the way, even if they had gotten the green light and found out he was available, you think the front office is getting upstairs approval to green light this? No. No. So which circles back to the same problem we talk about over and over. I'm going to do the Marshawn Lynch here over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over

[00:23:51] hit on the head a million times about signing for or acquiring elite level talent. And the excuses, man, they just build up. I mean, you want to just go through a couple of them? Shohei and Soto, too expensive. Matt Chapman, risky profile. Marcus Semien, Scott Boris doesn't like the Mariners. Can't send them there. Like Carlos Correa, six years, $200 million. Don't want to deal with the injuries. And now you can add endeavors.

[00:24:19] I'm sure this winner, unless the Mariners, of course, sign Kyle Tucker, they will find an excuse for why they didn't sign Kyle Tucker. And they just I think Kyle will probably find an excuse why he doesn't want to sign here. But how about the excuse for why they're not going to be in on it? Well, sorry. I'm sorry. Now I'm now I'm now I'm reeling away from what I always say. They are going to get Kyle Tucker. But I'm planning in the scenario that they don't in the like .001% world. They actually don't get Kyle Tucker. I'm planning for the world of that.

[00:24:47] And in that scenario, what are they going to say? Yeah, he costed too much money again. So like it just builds up, man. And you know what the common denominator is? You continue to not win. You made the playoffs once in 23 years. It's going to be 24 if you miss this year. This regime's made it once in a decade. When like when do the excuses stop? Seriously. And you know what's up? No, go ahead. Go ahead.

[00:25:17] Go ahead. No, I'm not. I'm not here to interrupt your role. All I was going to say is, again, I feel like I am calmer about this today. I'm not totally yelling like Monday's podcast. Which I think you're out of energy. Background laws on about two hours of sleep right now. I am, but I'm also trying to not go full balls to the wall all the time. Because again, you got to pick your spots to do that. I was ready to do it on Monday because I was feeling it. And I was wired. And I thought it was absolutely relevant to do so. Now I'm trying to take a little bit of a step back for everybody.

[00:25:47] But, and I mean this wholeheartedly as we wrap this part of the conversation up. You know who pays for this every time, man? Man, fans, the people who pay the salaries of everybody in the organization. Okay, I know organizations make money for more than just fans. Of course, they have huge endorsement deals and sponsors and everything like that. And they pay for those endorsements because of? Fans, yes. Bingo. Fans pay these salaries. They are the ones that suffer.

[00:26:14] Not the people that make insane salaries in the org. It's the people that pay those salaries. Which is the fans, man. What did the fans do to have anything? Like, how am I trying to say this? The fans had nothing to do with the fact that Scott Boris despises the Seattle Mariners. And that's real, by the way. Like, we've learned that plenty and picked up enough information over time to know that that's very real. And you know how long that goes back with Boris and the M's?

[00:26:44] It goes back like a generation. It goes back 25-something years to A-Rod and the old ownership group. So, essentially, like in 25 years, feel how you want to feel about Scott Boris and how he does business. The reality is some of the best players in this sport are his clients. Work with him. You want to get premier talent. You have to go through him.

[00:27:10] And nobody in the Mariners organization in 25 years clearly has made enough of an attempt to fix this relationship. Because Scott Boris has not had a client sign in free agency with the Mariners in whatever, 25 years. So, what did fans do to deserve that? They only pay the price for it. What did the fans do to deserve the fact that, again, like, just the continuous excuses on why they continue to just either whiff or not try on these elite-level players,

[00:27:40] and then as a result continue to miss the playoffs? Fans pay for all this. Fans right now are paying for what was a total lackluster offseason and a team that's barely in a wildcard spot. They're barely above 500. Like, fans are the ones that pay for this, man. And it just gets to a breaking point. I don't know exactly why this Devers thing is what had me at, like, a breaking point all of a sudden here in the middle of the season. It's probably a mound and pile of things starting to build up.

[00:28:10] But, like, I know I'm now just getting into the principles of sports here. Not every organization is the L.A. Dodgers or whoever, the New England Patriots or whatever example you want to use. And fans do have to suffer through things a lot of times. But, like, it gets to a point where it's like, again, like, where are people's breaking points? How long do fans have to put up with things that they don't have anything to do with?

[00:28:36] All they want to do is love the team, watch winning baseball, and support the city. They don't have anything to do with Scott Boris having an awful relationship with the Mariners and the Mariners continuously choosing not to sign all these elite-level guys and acquire them or whiff on them. It just gets to a point where it's ridiculous, man. Like, I'm sitting here feeling it at, like, a certain level of a breaking point. I'm not saying, like, I'm going to ditch the fandom of the team or anything like that. But, like, you can just feel your blood really boiling, like, all of a sudden.

[00:29:06] And I know I'm not the only person out there that feels that way. It shows abundantly – it's now abundantly clear and continues to be. It's just the priorities are different in the different groups. In people who run the franchise and – or at least some of them – where it really matters the most and what it will take to get to this point, that fans care more about winning.

[00:29:33] I'm sure there are people in the organization and high up who really do care about winning. But when it comes to, like, putting the – putting things, money, where it's required when you've tried everything else to get to the winning point or to get to the relational point, they just haven't really gotten there at that point. I thought that was really well said, Lyle. Good job. All right. Well, good. Let's go. I'm glad.

[00:29:54] It's just – like, again, it's like I said at the end of the offseason, which, again, another point in time and example where I was animated, to say the least, when I was talking about this subject. But I'll say it a little calmer now. I'm not saying the people at the top of this organization don't want to win. I'm not saying they want to lose baseball games. They also do not take the necessary steps to actually be serious about winning. We've just seen it too many times.

[00:30:22] I know this Devers thing is just one very, like, outlier example. And I understand that he was not shipped around to the rest of the league. But it's a bigger picture we're circling back to here, which is just every time there is a game-changing player that could really alter this offense and alter this team, which clearly needs it because despite signing Julio and despite signing Cal and despite trying to lock up some of your pitchers, you still fall short.

[00:30:52] And what you've tried now for way too long isn't working. And it's not working to enough of an extent this year because you're a 500 team right now. I'm not convinced that's going to change in the near future either. So that's what it's about. Before we get to the Mariners playing baseball on the field, we need to spend a minute on Craig Breslow. Yes! We have to. Dude, if I close my eyes and read you that quote, that is Jerry DiPoto. Yes!

[00:31:20] The quotes and reports that came out about Craig Breslow today during this entire saga is that he is robotic and out of touch. While saying quotes in the press conference they gave today here on Monday that very much resemble what the Mariners president of baseball operations does. And it just so happens there was such a good tweet online.

[00:31:45] It was such a good tweet where it was like, what is it about ex-relievers now running baseball orgs? That have no feel. That have no feel. In case anybody's missed this Craig Breslow tweet, let me just read it aloud to you. I want you to close your eyes and put a white canvas in front of you in your mind.

[00:32:11] And I'm just going to let you try to picture who you think would say this. Pretend like you hadn't already had it spoiled to you by us. Just listen. Here is what Craig Breslow said. I do think there's a real chance that at the end of the season, we're looking back and we've won more games than we otherwise would have. Dude! Dude! Did he fit a perception and reality in there too? Oh, it was.

[00:32:41] I mean, dude. You know what would have just hit like no other for Craig Breslow to add in right at the end of that quote? Right at the end of that quote was a perfect opportunity for, much to the dismay of a few. Or when he talks about, we're trying to build a sustainable product. When you look at a 10-year sample size of the best teams in baseball, they usually win 54% of their games.

[00:33:08] See, it's a very similar idea here in the sense of Jerry's 54% quote. How we talked about, look, you can believe that internally. You cannot try and tell your fans that. That is ridiculous. I'm not even saying that Craig Breslow may be 100% wrong. I'm not saying there's no world where the Red Sox don't win more games without Rafi Devers than with him.

[00:33:37] I think it's unlikely, but I'm not even saying there's no world. 24 hours after shocking the baseball world and making this just egregious trade, you cannot come out to your fan base and say that. You just can't do it. No. I did enjoy the person who quote tweeted the Breslow quote with Nico Harrison. I thought that was good. I thought that was also very fitting. Maybe he's a mold between the two of them.

[00:34:06] Except, how are the Red Sox going to get the NBA, like, the rigged lottery version of this? Like, there's no way they, there's no way someone paid off the Red Sox to do this. No. But, unlike the Dallas Mavericks were absolutely bribed to trade Luka Doncic to the Lakers. Yeah. Yeah. But, there's a draft lottery in baseball now.

[00:34:30] Now, who's to say when we're at the winter meetings down in Orlando in December that we're not sitting there and watch, oh, the Boston Red Sox get the number one pick. There's no Cooper flag of the MLB draft, though. That's not a thing. No, I thought there was supposed to be a kid that's supposed to be really good in next year's draft. The UCLA shortstop is supposed to be incredibly good, but he's not. Baseball players going number one overall outside of Bryce Harper are not these Cooper flag prospects.

[00:35:00] No, he's going to come onto the team and he's going to instantly make you that much better to win a title. Like, that's not that's not what's going to happen. The Boston Red Sox shit. The Boston Red Sox right now have the number one prospect in baseball. Roman Anthony homered tonight his first career home run ever. By the way, super cool kid. We we got the one person we got to talk to today from the Red Sox. It was Roman Anthony. He was super cool. And he's great friends with Cole Young. Fun fact. Did not know that. But that was actually cool. We got to dive in on that with him a little bit just because I was curious.

[00:35:30] When he said that, oh, Cole's one of my best friends. I was like, Pittsburgh for Cole. Roman's from Florida. Like, how in the world did that happen? They played a lot of Team USA baseball together growing up and in high school. And obviously, like, they've kept in great touch over the years. Roman said they talk all the time, which is pretty cool. And I think he said they're going to try and get together before a game this week and do something, which is cool. Yeah.

[00:35:55] Like, and especially they got called up so, like, close to each other in terms of time length. Pretty awesome. And it worked out that this is Roman Anthony's first road trip. And it just happens to see his, like, to be in a place where he sees his buddy Cole Young. So, yeah, I thought that was really cool. But in the draft, like, they already have the number one prospect. Like, that is what helps. So, the UCLA shortstop you're referencing is Roch Chalowski, right? Yeah. So, there's him. There's that Justin LeBron kid from Alabama.

[00:36:24] There's a couple kids that could go high in that draft. But point being, yes, there's no Cooper flag. I'm just saying that the Red Sox getting the number one pick in the lottery would still be hilarious. It would be pretty funny. I think only Meritor fans could, like, enjoy the analysis of Craig Breslow. I really do think so. Like, is there any other GM? There might be, but there... Maybe Mike Elias? Yeah.

[00:36:55] Yeah. That's a... Although, I don't know if I see him come out with PR disasters of quotes. I'm not saying he's made every sound move. But I don't feel like I've seen Elias have these just atrocities of media sessions time after time. It's crazy, man. What a weekend of baseball. It... Baseball turned into the NBA for a week. Why do you think we're spending multiple episodes talking about Rafi Devers?

[00:37:23] Like, I'm not saying the NBA is perfect, but I wish baseball had way more of this. You see how much fun all this drama is? Awesome. I want more of it. Yeah. Can Mike Trout demand a trade? Well, he might get traded to the White Sox. What's up? He better be careful. Oh, yeah. You could pull an Aaron Savali. Yeah. I want to get traded. All right, Aaron. Yeah. Let's trade you to the worst organization in baseball.

[00:37:53] Should I play the Shane Gillis quote? Yeah. Sure. Do you have it up? I mean... Somewhere. Yeah. He's like, oh, shit. Yeah. This is way worse. It... Okay. I mean, you just summarized it, basically. Where the tweet was, Aaron Savali demands a trade. Then he sees he's going to the White Sox. And it's the video of Shane Gillis going, oh, fuck. Oh, fuck. And he goes, oh, that's way worse.

[00:38:27] That's... That's... You got to be careful, man. White Sox will come gobble you up. You have no idea. All right. We do need to talk some Mariners, Lyle, but you should read an ad first. Okay. Before we get to that, let's talk to you about our friends over at Pagatcha's Pub 85. It's an awesome spot, you guys. With summer here, if you need to plan a night out with your friends, an evening, day trip, whatever you want. It's an awesome spot to go hang out. And it features everything from great food, games, TV, sports watching. There's more than 20 TVs in that place.

[00:38:54] And happy hour deals that are just about unbeatable. That's $3 and $4 happy hour drinks, Monday through Friday, from 2 to 6 p.m. Again, $3 and $4, you guys. Those are awesome specials. So if you want to get involved with any of that, or hopefully all of it, go check out Pagatcha's Pub 85 over in Kirkland. We can briefly touch on the sweep over the weekend. It's a little after the fact now with this episode coming out on a Wednesday. It was nice for the Mariners to do what they did after reaching the low point of the season,

[00:39:23] which I think Wednesday against the Diamondbacks, with them getting swept, was the low point of the season, easily. However, I think of this in context, too. Well, the Mariners had a couple of really good offensive games. They came back against Emmanuel Classe, of all people, on Saturday. The first time in two years that the Guardians have entered the ninth inning with a lead and blown the game. Kind of crazy.

[00:39:48] But I'm looking at this Guardians lineup, and it has to be the most underwhelming lineup I've ever seen. Two really good bats, and then everyone else. And the two good bats being J-Ram, Stephen Kwan. You're not putting Manzardo in there? Wazoo legend? Does he strike fear into you, Manzardo? No. No. Daniel Schneeman? What's his name? Hitting in the middle of the order. Yeah, I don't think so. No.

[00:40:18] So when a lineup is really that unimpressive, and your rotation goes out there and shoves all weekend. Shout out to our guy, Emerson Hancock. Seven. Shuddy. Best start of his career. That was cool. Castillo was good. Kirby was good. And the offense had two pretty good games. And Cal didn't even need a homer. Yeah. I did make a joke to Emerson when we caught up with him for a bit on Monday.

[00:40:47] In that being, the last time we tried to sing his praises, and we're like, dude, you're killing it. You're absolutely carving them up. He was like, yeah, it's going all right. It is what it is. He pushed away any possible praise. So I said to him this time after his seventh shutout, it's like, you don't seem to like praise. So maybe next time, and from here on out moving forward, we'll just say, start pitching better. Eight shutout instead. Yeah. Like, ain't good enough, pal.

[00:41:14] No, but he was, he was awesome on Sunday. That was sick to see. It is. It has really been a blast to see him turn into who he's turned into this year and really kind of live up to being the guy that he was once drafted to be. Since that first start, by the way, Emerson Hancock has a 365 ERA on the year. If you throw out that first start, he has a 365 ERA on the year.

[00:41:39] And over the last month, over his last six starts, two, four, one ERA. That is our guy. That's the guy we were championing coming into the season. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it's pretty cool. And they, God, they needed, they, God, they needed him. And he, he held a very valuable piece of this rotation waiting for Logan to come back. We'll talk about him in a second. I do have one more takeaway from this weekend, actually.

[00:42:07] That's kind of, so we're like, we're putting this episode together and I'm trying to think of like, all right, what's interesting to talk about? Because like the weekend was objectively good for the Mariners. A lot of good things happened, but there wasn't like one really big takeaway that stood out to me. So I'm just kind of sitting there and I'm thinking as the Mariners are coming up to the plate on Monday and flailing in just the most putrid, pathetic situations of all time. It's awful. Just worst off, arguably worst offensive performance of the season on Monday.

[00:42:35] So I need, okay, let's think of, let's, let's take a different path here. What are we thinking about? I think back to Sunday, JP Crawford has his grand slam and I'm starting to sit there and I'm thinking, trying to think of other shortstops in Mariners history to have the offensive success JP Crawford has had. And then I went back and I looked and I came to the realization while JP Crawford is the second best shortstop the Mariners have ever had.

[00:43:04] That, that doesn't like sound real coming out of my mouth, but like, that's true. It's a hundred percent true. Since he's starting, he's starting to make his way up Mariners list in terms of all time ranks. Pretty sure he's top 10 in war now all time among Mariners position players. That's great. That's it just doesn't seem like it because there were people, there could be people who would come out and argue that JP Crawford wasn't actually good until 2023 because of

[00:43:32] his bat because his bat wasn't good enough. But now his 2023 and his 2025 season are going to be the best offensive Mariners seasons at shortstop since Alex, Alex Rodriguez. And the next closest is Gene Segura, like 15 percentage points behind JP Crawford. So by B war, JP is 10th among all Mariners position players all time. It gets better than that. He's at 20.

[00:44:01] Alvin Davis is at 20.1. So JP will pass him. Beltre's at 21.2. Buhner's at 23 and Robinson Cano's at 23.9. By the time JP Crawford's contract ends next year, there is a real world. We are talking about JP Crawford as the sixth most valuable Mariner of all time behind only among position players behind only Griffey, Edgar, Ichiro, A-Rod, Kyle Seager.

[00:44:31] What? What? Like, I guess. Alex Rodriguez's peak WRC plus of the Mariners was 159. JP Crawford as of today, last time I checked, was at 147 right now. Isn't that kind of, that's kind of bonkers because A-Rod was insane offensively as a Mariner. He had 340 homer seasons. He had a season where he had 36 homers, over 50 doubles. He hit 360.

[00:45:00] He was almost worth 10 wins above replacement. And yet JP Crawford on a league-adjusted, era-adjusted statistical balance, is less than 10% behind that season for A-Rod. Yeah. It's kind of bonkers. This dude needs to be an all-star. He, he should be an all-star. You were, you were saying over the weekend, it's going to be really hard to pass Bobby. It's going to be really hard to pass Gunner. Jeremy Pena's had a really good season too for the Astros.

[00:45:29] I get it. Well, he probably won't win the popularity contest. But statistically, he is an all-star. Yeah. And you didn't add Jacob Wilson in there either. So this is where- Oh yeah, Jacob Wilson has been the best of all of them. This is where the issue comes to fruition. Let's say Wilson's the starter among the American League for shortstop. And he should be. Yeah. Then you have to jump potentially Pena. And even if they were going to add three shortstops,

[00:45:57] then he still has to win the popularity contest over Bobby and Gunner. And whether it's fair or not, all-star week oftentimes is about getting your biggest stars on center stage. And I'm not saying it's fair to JP Crawford. It isn't. But I have a hard time believing the league would give him the nod if it's close over Gunner and or Bobby. You know what's going to be a great answer to the Patreon mailbag question

[00:46:25] that Corey sent us a couple weeks ago that we posted about? Where it's like, pick one Mariner to add to your team that's never made an all-star game or won an award. Might have to be JP Crawford. Oh wait, no, he won a gold glove. And he's already on this roster. So it would have to be when he retired. I know, but I'm thinking of like 15 years from now. Ah, okay. Yeah, fair enough. That was kind of the weekend. They won. Cole Young bunning on Saturday was stupid. But anyway.

[00:46:55] You gotta, you gotta, yeah, again, like hate bunning, especially against Class A. Like, no. Didn't like that. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I guess they still won. Cole Young at the end of the weekend was six for his last 20. That's 300. No, I don't want to see him bunning. By the way, they were losing. They were losing that game. You know what I'd be sitting on here on this podcast talking about? If they had tried to bunt Cole Young, giving up an out and they lose,

[00:47:25] I would have said, why on earth did you just give up a free fucking out? Hmm. Yeah. Yes. They won. And that's what matters. I'm happy they won. Shout out Jorge Polanco, who's starting to hit another little bit of a spark of his own, which is great. Did not like that bun in any way, shape or form. Especially, especially because the reason they won, the guardians did have a pass ball there, but you needed a base hit no matter what. If you were scoring against Class A,

[00:47:54] it's not just the bunt you needed to hit. And Jorge Polanco had a hit. And that's how it ends up. So they ended up winning a sweep. They desperately needed to get back on the kind of the right track until Monday. And they stunk. Instead of talking about the offense, Lyle for Monday, we should talk about Logan Gilbert coming back. Let's do that for a couple minutes. And then we can talk about our number 11 draft prospects. And that'll be a show. Okay. Um, do you know what I actually didn't realize? First of all, uh, it, it's great to have Logan back. God,

[00:48:23] I missed him watching him on the mound today. Hey, you very, you very quickly re-remember who is the, the alpha in this rotation. You remember who's stepping up with there on that mound and he's just going to go out there and he's going to dominate with Logan's innings threshold. Well, do you want to know who the only, there's only one other pitcher in all of baseball who struck out more batters than Logan Gilbert at a higher rate.

[00:48:49] Josh Hader is it Logan strikeout rate after a start today is 30 is 40%. Yeah. He's a starting pitcher. Strikeout rates, 40%. It's crazy. Crazy. Yeah. He's really good. I mean, in his first outing back, the guy has, I mean, this almost doesn't even feel real considering it was his first start. He had 21 whiffs. Like what? Like, dude, we,

[00:49:18] we thought two months ago you might need Tommy John. And now you just got 21 swings and misses in your first outing back in only five innings on 84 pitches. That's on a quarter of his pitches. He got those whiffs. He's that's like, that's nearly a, that's nearly like a 20% whiff rate on all pitches, not just swings. Yeah. He's really good. And by the way, the, the, the one true Ronnie gave up, tell you what, Roman Anthony just got himself a pretty memorable first home run.

[00:49:47] He's going to look back in 10 years and Roman Anthony may have eight all-star games in 10 years to his own belt, but he still may look back in 10 years and say, yeah, my first career Homer. Yeah. I was off a Logan Gilbert. And it was on a, on a fastball in the upper nineties on the outside corner that he somehow pulled to right center. It was basic. It was basically not in the strike zone. Mm-hmm. It was pretty impressive. The biggest number I can point to of why the Mariners have needed Logan Gilbert back so much yet. We've,

[00:50:15] we've lauded the performances of Logan Evans and Emerson Hancock and how good Brian Wu's pitch this season. But frankly, the Mariners as a rotation, since Logan Gilbert left the rotation and was hurt, they've been 16th in ERA as a unit. Now that he's back, should the expectation be their top seven again from here on out to the rest of the season? They're going to make the playoffs. They probably need to do that at least. Yeah. A hundred percent. You've got to be in the top seven, eight,

[00:50:43] especially with Logan Gilbert back because you know, sorry, but your offense ain't going to drive this team right now. We still don't know what exactly is going to drive this team. We keep talking about the lack of identity. If it's going to be anything, it has to be what you built this entire roster around your rotation. And Logan Gilbert is the ace of that rotation. And as far as, as far as we can tell right now, health wise, this is as good as your rotation is going to get all season long.

[00:51:11] That is guessing that there will be no return of Bryce Miller this season. So this is it. Like this is as good as it gets. This is arguably as healthy as it gets at this current point with Kirby being back as well. So now you need to go take advantage of it and help it go. Have it go help you win games. Yeah. Unfortunately, they looked a whole lot like the 2024 Mariners where they get an unreal start from Logan Gilbert or George Kirby or Bryce Miller or Brian Wu.

[00:51:37] And the offense would get shut out against a mediocre pitching staff. So what did I say? What did I say on Monday's pod dog? We said they needed to win the first couple of games to avoid the crochet start. And I said, well, yes, but we know Lucas Giolito and Walker Bueller, despite tough seasons so far, can turn it on at any time because they've had seasons of dominance, plenty. So in their own, right. And boy, did Giolito turn it on against the Mariners, man. And that change up,

[00:52:07] that change up used to be a lot better, but it looked like it was in prime form on Monday. No doubt. Unfortunately, want to get to our spotlight now? Yeah, let's do it. This has been fun. So for those who are unaware, we have been highlighting, we have been highlighting 12 prospects leading up to the draft to get everybody as informed as we possibly can on this number three pick that the Mariners are going to have. That is going to be crucial. It is going to be monumental for what it can do for this farm system.

[00:52:36] We highlighted number 12 on Friday's show. That was steel hall, high school infield shortstop. How about number 11 today? Liam Doyle. So Liam Doyle has played at three colleges in three years, by the way, he is a high octane lefty played his first year of college ball at coastal Carolina. His second at Ole Miss and his third with the Tennessee volunteers this college baseball season. So safe to say,

[00:53:04] if he enters the Mariners organization at the number three pick in this upcoming MLB draft, he will be used to adapting to new personnel, learning new systems and coming out and being his best off it. If there's one trait that sticks out to me about Liam Doyle is that he is a high velocity, high emotion, high octane pitcher on the mound. He's incredibly intense. He was the SEC pitcher of the year this year. He's a stud. He's got his,

[00:53:33] his main plus as an arm is that his fastball is elite. The profile on his fastball, he throws it upper nineties. It has 20 plus inches of carry and it runs a lot, which is very, very, very, very, very good traits. And he throws it as a lefty, which is even more important. The other side of this is that he doesn't have many other pitches. He relies on. He has a cutter. He has a couple of other breaking balls, but none of them are plus pitches like his fastball. So when he comes into the Mariners org,

[00:54:01] he would come in more along the lines of what, uh, with more accolades, by the way, and more innings under their belt, kind of like Bryce Miller and Brian Wu were when they came into the Mariners organization. Great fastball sheet, but got to work on some other things, which is why he'll be sitting here at number 11 for us on our profile. He's not number one or number two. He's got a chance to be really good. And that fastball could take him a long way,

[00:54:30] but he's number 11 because he's been a little up and down in his college career. His only true dominant year was this past season in 2020. That was the year he really, sorry, did I just say 2020, 2025 where he, really put it all together at Tennessee, change colleges a couple of times. Like you mentioned, spend a little time in the Cape league, never really put it all together. This year was the big year. And that's not uncommon for college pitchers. We saw it happen with Durangelo last year.

[00:54:59] He really only had one big college year and it was 2024 and it got him drafted high in the first round. Kind of like Liam Doyle in a similar sense, because that fastball has carried him this year. He pitched at a high octane level, high powered conference, dominant powerhouse type baseball school in Tennessee,

[00:55:21] but doesn't have the track record of some other guys and doesn't quite have the pitch mix of some other guys that may go a tad bit higher in terms of pitchers than him when this draft comes around next month. So Liam Doyle, man, you ride that basketball. He's got a chance to be awesome as a big leaguer, as he, as he works his way through the system, because that pitch may be the best one in college baseball. The issue with him is, is the consistency, both of the track record he's put together and the secondaries he still has to improve on.

[00:55:51] But it is a very, very high octane, intense, unique profile that you can't ignore. And this next part I'm going to about, about to mention how you, how you receive this information is based on the type of fan you are and how much emotion you like on the field. Liam Doyle is about as emotional of a player as you will see on a baseball diamond. You want to know a quote from his head coach, Tony Vitallo on him? Quote,

[00:56:19] he's like a man at a bar fight on the field. He's borderline psychotic when he steps on the mound. The intensity is off the charts. And you wonder how that plays in much more low energy environments when he's coming up through the minors. I always wonder how players handle that as they go through the minors. And you go from playing in front of, you know, Friday night crowds and SEC play to Arkansas, minor league Arkansas,

[00:56:48] not the Arkansas Razorbacks, like, like Arkansas travelers. It's not quite the same amount of energy. There is a situation that happened in the Tennessee Knoxville regional with Wake Forest and Tennessee playing in an elimination game for Wake Forest. Liam Doyle's out to close this game. He's, he's got the batter in two strikes. He's ready to go. The batter calls time, goes back to the Wake Forest dugout to, to talk with the head coach for Wake Forest. And they strategize on how they're going to attack Liam Doyle. And Liam Doyle's like, you know,

[00:57:18] he's like, he's like a bull walking off the mound. He's like huffing and puffing. You can see like the snarl he's got on his face. He like, his infielder's coming. He's like, nah, nah, nah, I got this. I got this. I don't need any of you. Stay, stay out of this. And he's like, he's on the mound. He's like ready to go as this dude slowly saunters his way back into the box. And then Doyle throws this just BB of a 90 to my 99 mile an hour fastball right by him. And he's just screaming and being like, yeah, you effed up, you effed up, you effed up coming off the field.

[00:57:47] And it was as much energy as I've ever seen from someone on a baseball field. And if you watch that, you will agree with the, he's sort of a psycho on the mound. I love it. If you're going to take it, it's great. I love the emotion. I love it. You know what that says to me? Just another day of Tennessee baseball. Dude, there's something that program does where everyone is the cockiest motherfucker on planet earth. I mean, when Drew Gilbert hit that home run a couple of years ago,

[00:58:15] who was a first rounder for the Astros and then was traded to the Mets to get Verlander back. Dude, he, I mean, that is the most psychotic, but awesome celebration I've ever seen. Like screaming at his dugout, like, like turns his back to first base and starts to play. Screaming at his dugout, flips the bat over his head is screaming, running all the, all the way around the bases, screaming at the opposing dugout. I mean, dude, I love it all. That's what makes college baseball fun. Yeah, it is a lot of fun.

[00:58:44] And Liam Doyle, hopefully can bring some of that fun to the Mariners organization. Fun, fun player to profile. I will say. Yeah. And he's one of those college arms up there that the Mariners could think about. He is ranked a little bit lower, mostly because of the lack of total pitch mix. And he would be another guy kind of like steel hall. It would be an under slot sign up. The Mariners were to go for him at three, right? But you would bank on one specific tool or in this case, pitch build from there. And by the way, his,

[00:59:13] his whip was under one this year. So it's, it's not like he gets erratic. He throws strikes. I would also think of this along the lines of Mariners are thinking left-handed starter at number three. We will get to Kate Anderson, the lefty from LSU who is supposed to go. He could go one in this draft. The Mariners be like, man, we really like Kate Anderson, but is there really a say $4 million difference between Liam Doyle and Kate Anderson? There's three lefties.

[00:59:42] We're going to get to in these profiles. Doyle's the first. We will get to the other two as time goes on here, but yeah, man, it's, it's Doyle's got an interesting profile, so we'll see how it all shakes out. That's number 11. Again, we took a break on Monday from these profiles because we had such a lengthy, but awesome interview with Jared Carabas. We will be doing one profile now for about five minutes a show. Every show leading up to the draft in the middle of July now moving forward. That's number 11, Liam Doyle. Hopefully you guys learned a little bit about him.

[01:00:11] That also wraps up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to listen to the full form podcast, you can do so wherever you get your podcasts, but if you want an easy way to find it, you can just go right over to our website. That's marinelayerpod.com where all our episodes are there. Go get your merch. Go sign up for our Patreon. You can look at our live show schedule, which we forgot to plug it earlier in this episode, but our next show is Saturday, June 28th, 12 p.m. at Occidental Hall. It's the Hall on Occidental.

[01:00:41] Again, the brand new beer hall opening up right down by the ballpark on Occidental Avenue. We can't wait to see you guys there. 12 p.m. live show, 1 p.m. watch party. It's going to be a blast. So all of that is over at our website, marinelayerpod.com, and then you can follow us all across social media, at marinelayerpod. That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.