Episode 262: Is Nolan Arenado Finally A Realistic Trade Target For The Mariners? + Ryan Rowland-Smith (Mariners Broadcaster)

[00:00:00] Welcome to episode number 262 of the Marine Layer Podcast. We welcome on Mariners broadcaster Ryan Rowland-Smith. We chat with Hyphen about some Australian terminology, who the Mariners should target at the trade deadline upcoming in a month, and a couple of other second half storylines. We have two potential Mariners trades targets to preview on this episode and our number five MLB draft spotlight.

[00:00:24] Here's your guys reminder before this podcast really gets going. Make sure you go check out the one-stop shop for all things Marine Layer Pod. That's over at our website. It's MarinLayerPod.com. Whether you want your merch, we've seen people wearing it a bunch, which has been awesome. If you want to subscribe to our Patreon where you can get on weekly or on monthly calls with us, you can send us weekly mailbag questions, bunch of different things, ad free episodes might I add. That's a big perk of being a Patreon member. If you're interested in all of that stuff, go over to our website. You can see us on our website.

[00:00:53] Sign up for it there. All our episodes are over there. Audio, video, whole nine yards. That's over at MarinLayerPod.com. And you can follow us all across social media at MarinLayerPod. Let's get it rolling.

[00:01:17] And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network, recording on Monday evening, June 30th. I was getting worried about Cal Raleigh this week, Lyle. He went like five days without hitting a home run. So I guess sitting here recording on Monday night, he put one of the most impressive swings on a baseball. He's put all season hitting right-handed going the other way tonight. I could take a deep sigh of relief. Were you ready to send him down?

[00:01:48] I mean, someone suggested today that the Mariners send Julio down. If Julio didn't hit a home run for five days and Cal didn't hit a home run for five days, yeah, they should probably both be in Tacoma. Yeah. Yeah, that was a ridiculous swing Cal put on that ball. And, again, is he going to hit six homers here as we record on the night of June 30th before the end of the first half, before All-Star Week? Tough.

[00:02:17] Not impossible. If he does it, he's on the bonds track. 13 games exactly? No, it's now 12. If he hits two in a game here at some point on this homestand, I don't know, man. And, again, the Mariners, they're going to see some good arms against the Royals the rest of this series. Well, Michael Lorenzen struggled. But Noah Cameron and Seth Lugo are obviously very good arms. And then they're going to miss Paul Skeens over the weekend. So, yeah, Cal's going to have opportunity to get his bums.

[00:02:45] And then he gets three games in the Mickey Mouse ballpark next week. I cannot wait for some good old pop-ups to leave the yard from Cal and say, you know what? If Cal played at Yankee Stadium, he'd actually hit 80 bombs. Have you thought up anything to chirp next week? For who? Well, it's going to be Cal versus Judge. Are we chirping on the pod account? Sure.

[00:03:13] Aaron Judge is a Mickey Mouse ballpark merchant. Hmm. I like that. Or how about we use the AI Cal Raleigh words that Aaron Judge plays in a McDonald's ballpark – McDonald's ball box of a ballpark? We do what John Boy has done. And they'll occasionally tweet out some, like, NBA Centel stuff just to, like, just to rib on people. And we do breaking Cal Raleigh comments on the MVP race with Aaron Judge.

[00:03:43] Wait. Are you talking the John Boy tweets out Centel stuff? Are you talking about that Talking Bassabell account? I know there's a Talking Bassabell account, but I do believe the actual Talking Baseball account has tweeted out some stuff. Oh, maybe they have. I don't think Talking Bassabell is a John Boy account. Well, no, it's not. It's not. No. And we did – good thing that account exists. The baseball world does need those accounts. It's essentially the baseball Centel all of a sudden. It's pretty new, but I love the idea. Someone's got to fool Brock.

[00:04:13] Yeah. Somebody does need to fool Brock. And I bet you at some point Brock is going to send a Talking Bassabell tweet and say, what? And then it's going to be like, read the name closer, Brock. Like, look real close. And tell me again what it says. No, the WNBA is not banning booing like you got fooled by for Centel. Do you want to explain that for anyone who might not listen to Brock and Sock? Yeah.

[00:04:36] Brock got fooled by a Centel tweet thinking the WNBA was actually going to start banning booing across the league as if they had any way to enforce thousands of fans not yelling things out of their mouth. Yeah. Brock falls for a lot of fake tweets. It's – it is something, I will say. But anyway, yeah, again, we can say he plays in a McDonald's ball pit of a ballpark, Aaron Judge. We can say that – man, what else do we want to chirp him about?

[00:05:04] Can we say that Aaron Judge is actually too tall to win an MVP? Mm. I like that. You can make the argument that – hmm. Yeah, there's some other things we could cook up. The problem is – I can't think of anything off the top of my head right now. But I have a week to think about it. You probably can't think anything off the top of your head because Aaron Judge is the best player on the planet, arguably. Well, you can call him second to Shohei. Well, Aaron Judge is actually the second – or maybe not even second best player at this point.

[00:05:34] Byron Buxton, by the way, who – I don't know if people have noticed. If you go look since May 1st, I think it's now Callen Buxton who are the top two. Does that mean Aaron Judge is on the hot seat? Oh, that could be a trash-talking topic. Let's see. Let me confirm this before I go off spewing here. Most valuable players in baseball since May 1st? Yep, that would be Cal Raleigh number one. Unfortunately, Aaron Judge is still number two.

[00:06:00] But Cal, .7 war lead on Aaron Judge. So, yeah. Yeah, so Cal Raleigh has been the most valuable player in baseball for two months now. That qualifies enough for me out of a three-month season to name him MVP. I'm down. Sorry, Aaron. You got the LeBron fatigue. I was wrong about Buxton. He's been good. He's been a top ten player, but not. Not up there with Cal and Judge. He could still finish top five in the MVP race, though, Buxton. He could.

[00:06:30] Miles behind the top two. Yeah. Although, this is just a quick little – It's the meme with the guy shaking the champagne bottle, pouring it on himself, and then you zoom out, and he was in third place. I will say, though, quick little side note, and then we can get to some other stuff. But I do wonder how much Tarek Skubal is going to start to factor into the MVP conversation because he's getting past the point of just winning a Cy Young. He may be getting to the point where he's actually entering the race.

[00:06:58] Now, he's not ahead of Judge and Cal, but he could finish on the podium. He could finish third at this rate. I'm sorry. Pitchers should not be allowed to win MVP. They have their own MVP award. But if you're as good as Skubal, it becomes a conversation. If pitchers want to be up for MVP, fine, but then you need to create a hitter version of the Cy Young award. Otherwise, what are we doing? But the award's not only – The award's not for hitters only.

[00:07:28] There's nothing in the rulebook saying it's for camp. It just seems kind of ridiculous where you pick – MVP, you're essentially trying to pick the best player in baseball, but then we have a separate award just for pitchers. If they're going to do that – If I was a batter, I'd be a little peeved, to be honest, if you cared about that stuff. I don't think Judge does. Cal might a little bit because it's his first. Judge has already won an MVP. But if you're a hitter and you have this unbelievable season and a pitcher wins their version of an MVP award

[00:07:57] and then takes your award too, how are you supposed to feel? Well, hitters have silver sluggers. Not the same. Platinum. Somewhat. Platinum glove, I think, is the closest thing because it's like the best defender, period. They should create a best hitter award. All right. Anyway, Cal hitting another home run just generated another eight minutes of conversation because every time Cal hits a homer, this is where we're at in the year

[00:08:27] where it's just so ridiculous at this point and it's so historic the first half of the year he's putting on that it becomes a conversation every time. Before we get to our trade targets, how much do you think every player in the starting lineup having a song that is related to butts in it? What about it? Did you not see that? I saw it, but you didn't even finish your statement. You said how much does player have... I said how much impact did that have on Cal Raleigh hitting a home run tonight?

[00:08:57] Oh, well, between that, between the shirts, sure. Let's say vibes were high. Let's say vibes elevated the ball out of the ballpark tonight for Cal. They got dumped out of the ballpark. That's for sure. So much so that I'm not even going to bother talking about how George Kirby got pulled at 85 pitches and then they went back to Trent Thornton for the second day in a row and nearly blew the game because the Mariners won. All right, the Mariners won. We don't have to harp on that like we harped on Sunday's bullpen management for a good while. We don't even have to harp on it.

[00:09:26] We're not going to talk about how George Kirby got yanked out of the game at 85 pitches with a wiped out bullpen. We're not going to do that. If the game was 6-5 instead of 6-2, we would. Promise. Yeah. But they still did win by four runs. Again, we're not going to do that, TJ. We're not going to talk about how Dan Wilson yanked George Kirby out of the game at 85 pitches after Luis Castillo threw 117 on Sunday. We're not going to talk about that. Let's go to some trade targets. Let's go with some trade targets.

[00:09:53] The first guy I want to throw at you is somebody we have talked about quite a bit on this podcast for multiple seasons. I think he's made an appearance every single year of this podcast when thinking about trade targets. How about Nolan Arenado, Lyle? 34 years old at this point and still going. I wouldn't say still going strong, though. Look, the guy's going to be a Hall of Famer. He may be a first ballot Hall of Famer. He will probably be a first ballot Hall of Famer.

[00:10:21] But just like Nolan's seasons each of the last three years or so, that is also the direction my confidence level has gone in the idea of the Mariners trading for him, which is downward. Because Nolan Arenado... I always do this. Sometimes I say Arenado. Sometimes I say Arenado. I'm just going to say Arenado. Arenado's offense has declined each of the last three years. He's now at a point where he's a below-league average hitter. He's essentially lost the ability to slug.

[00:10:47] Now, if you want to use it in comparison to Mariners' third base production right now, it would be about a 22% upgrade by WRC+. But that also doesn't mean that Nolan Arenado's been a ridiculously good hitter this year. He hasn't. It just means the Mariners have gotten no offensive production out of third base. This is more reflective of the Mariners' current production at third base rather than going acquiring a player because you think you're getting a quality,

[00:11:16] above-average production at a position. That's exactly what I wrote down here. You look at the Mariners' third baseman. Luke Arkins, friend of the podcast, by the way, tweeted out a couple of pretty telling stats about the state of the Mariners' third base position. So Luke, towards the end of the game today, quote-tweeted his tweet from earlier, which I'll read here in a second. And Luke said, Tonight, a utility man with an 86 OPS plus started at third base instead of the regular third baseman with a 76 OPS plus.

[00:11:46] Suboptimal. Yeah. That is suboptimal. What's also suboptimal is what he quote-tweeted, which was his own tweet from earlier this afternoon, here on Monday afternoon. And he tweets as follows. Lowest third base OPS since April 15th. At number five come the Cubs. Or sorry, no, the Cubs are the lowest. He went backwards. Cubs are the lowest at 587. Then are the Reds. Then the Pirates. Then the Marlins.

[00:12:13] And then the Mariners with a combined third base OPS production of 609. In the last nearly three months, Mariners' third baseman are combining for a 609 OPS. Third base is a premium offensive position. 609 OPS. Nolan Aronado would not be making it a premium offensive position if you were trading for him. His contract, before we get to the fact he has a no-trade clause,

[00:12:40] you would owe him $16 million and $15 million the final two years of that contract. You would be on the hook for $6 million of deferred money if you went and acquired Nolan Aronado. So you've got to take that into account as well. The full no-trade clause is always, and has always been with Nolan Aronado, the number one thing that keeps him from being a Seattle Mariner, he can just say no. And I, to be honest, for a couple of reasons,

[00:13:05] see no idea why Nolan Aronado would accept a trade to the Seattle Mariners. But Jeff Passan thought there is a chance he's going to get traded. It's a 30% chance. He put in his article that he published on ESPN last week, and he listed the Mariners as one of the potential fits for Nolan Aronado. Great. I just don't know if I see it. Also, the Cardinals have a better record than the Mariners, and they're in a playoff spot right now. So why would they trade him?

[00:13:34] You think Passan knows something we don't? He could, but using my information that I know just doesn't feel like it. Here's another reason why, if I'm the Mariners, I would definitely think about this before you go out there and do that. Donovan Solano is hitting the ball harder than Nolan Aronado this year. For the whole season, not recently, the whole season.

[00:14:05] Is that what you want? Is that what you want $15 million, $16 million a year spent on? I want to spend the money. Is that what you want to spend it on? We, two weeks ago, talked about how the Mariners lit over $100 million on fire. Do you want to light 30 more on fire? 30 more million dollars on fire as Nolan Aronado goes into his age 35 and 36 seasons and gets ready to retire? No, but also is $15 million a year really that much?

[00:14:34] For a player who is a below league average hitter at a premier offensive position? Yeah. Yeah, it is. And for a team with budget constraints? Yep. Well, there shouldn't be budget constraints. Anyway, sorry, sorry. Let's just stay on topic. Who's going to play third base in the next couple years if it's not Aronado? Is it just going to be Ben Williamson and mix some guys around? I'm just thinking about what a solution could be. Hey, Eugenio Suarez.

[00:15:03] Well, he's a free agent at the end of the year. So sign him. Well, they should probably... That's the lovely thing about free agency is that you're available to every single team. And all it takes is money and a nice sales pitch. Well, he's cooked. They didn't need him in Seattle anymore. He had nothing left in the tank. That's why they traded him. You can say Nolan is still like a solid defender at third base. But it's just not good enough really anymore.

[00:15:33] If you have to give up anything in this trade or if you have to take on an obscene amount of salary, I don't see how this would be worth it. This is the first year you've seen his range really go down. Nolan Aronado for his entire career has not only been, if not the, one of the premier defenders in Major League Baseball, but he's had ridiculous range. He is in the 90th percentile or above and outs above average just about every year of his career. Not only does he play ridiculously good defense, but he has awesome range at third base.

[00:16:02] It's still good, but like his offense, you're seeing it go the wrong direction. He is now in the 79th percentile of outs above average at third base this year, which is still a good player. But again, compared to what he was and the value he used to accrue playing the hot corner defensively, it's not what it used to be. And if it's going down at age 34, it's probably going to continue to trend that way when he gets to 35 and 36, etc. And there's a lot of miles on those legs.

[00:16:30] How about we talk about someone who is more likely to be moved to this year and fits much better? Can we do that in one sec? Because I had one more Nolan thing. Oh, sure. The best way I can comp this Aronado trade is, you know, the scene in Moneyball where they're talking at the roundtable about guys they could potentially go sign and go acquire. And one of the guys that comes up is David Justice.

[00:16:54] Now, I know, at least in the movie Moneyball and in that O2 season, Justice played a nice role on that team. But the idea behind it is what I'm going to compare here to Nolan Aronado. Because remember how when Billy Bean throws out the idea of getting David Justice and all the scouts are like, Billy, old man Justice? They say, look, five, seven years ago, David Justice was a huge name. He played in some huge games. He's going to help our season tickets.

[00:17:21] But they say we get into the dog days of July and August, he's going to be lucky to hit his weight. Now, Nolan Aronado is not at that level where he's not even going to hit his weight. But it's the same idea of five, seven years ago, Nolan Aronado was one of the best players in Major League Baseball. Now, he'd be a name that you'd acquire and would probably get some extra people in the ballpark. But then when you get into the actual games and the 162 and try to win baseball games down the stretch, I don't know how much he's going to change the roster from that perspective.

[00:17:51] I'm with you there. I don't see it. I also just don't see it from the Cardinals' perspective as well because their team's good. I'm still laughing at how I threw out there. Well, maybe Passan knows more than us. And you're like, well, I'm going to use my information. How about we put that right there on a quote card? TJ Mathewson says, I have my sources and information on Nolan Aronado. Jeff Passan doesn't know fucking shit. That's the quote.

[00:18:19] If Jeff Passan wants to scoop me, that's fine. I'm okay with that. How about he credits you if they make the trade? When they don't make the trade, he says, credit at TJ Mathewson. He was right. The Mariners did not trade for Nolan Aronado. Hashtag Teej was right. I'm down. And then he can do hashtag Abe sucks. On to our next trade target, Lyle. To the National League we stay. And we're going to stay in the same division, actually.

[00:18:47] And look at David Bednar with the Pittsburgh Pirates. One of the few teams that is actually going to sell this year. And Bednar's been a name that's been floated out on the trade market for a couple of years now. People thought last year he might get traded as like this discount reliever because he was having a terrible year last year. Pirates hung on to him. And for good reason now. Because he is having the best year of his career from a strikeout perspective. From a walk perspective. From a run prevention perspective. From all three of those combined.

[00:19:16] He has been really good in this Pirates bullpen. And the best comparison I can use for David Bednar on this Pirates team is that. You know that meme with the Bugatti parts next to the shack? That's not fair. You can't say that for David Bednar. The Bugatti next to the shack is Paul Steen's. Okay, so then it's a Mercedes next to the Bugatti. Next to the shack. Alright. O'Neill Cruz doesn't get a car of his own?

[00:19:49] Tesla. In the sense that sometimes it's a really sick car and you enjoy having it. But then sometimes you remember it's created by Elon Musk? Yeah, the Elon Musk is usually when he misplays the ball in center field. That's probably about right. Alright. I was going to say you can't say the Bugattis to David Bednar when Paul Steen's on that team. But that's fine. That's a fair point. You called me out on it. That's fine.

[00:20:14] But David Bednar is way too good of a reliever to be pitching on one of the worst teams in baseball. There's no reason. He should be pitching for a contender after the deadline this year. All the more reason I thought it would be a good guy to bring up on this show. Not just because he is a dominant bullpen arm that the Mariners could really use. But the Mariners are going to get a first-hand look at him this weekend. He's going to be in town this weekend for the Pirates. Now, I thought they'd kind of get a first-hand look at Kyle Finnegan a few weeks back when the Nationals were here. But Finnegan never pitched in that series.

[00:20:44] I'd assume the Mariners are going to see Bednar at some point. And I'm not saying seeing him pitch in person is some altering setting where that changes your mind for whether you should trade for or not trade for him. Obviously, they have video after video after video on all these guys. And there is data point after data point that is at your every will if you need it. So, I'm not saying David Bednar coming to town makes the whole difference. But if you see him in person and he pitches well, it's not like it's going to deter you from the idea.

[00:21:13] Unless your name is Abe Toro. In which case, he comes to town as a spry 24-year-old and you decide to just upend your clubhouse for him. You couldn't even get through trade deadline talk without bringing up Abe. Like, totally unrelated. We're talking about a reliever in the National League. And then, Abe. Am I wrong? I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying you can't help yourself. No, I can't. But it will be good to see Bednar this weekend.

[00:21:43] It will be. It's the same. The Pirates trading David Bednar is the same idea with a little bit less control as the Mariners trading away Edwin Diaz after the 2018 season. Yeah, Bednar has a year and a half of team control. So if the Mariners make this move, it's not a rental. You get him next year too. And this is a guy that four of the last five years, he has been one of the best relievers in baseball. I understand last year was a really down year.

[00:22:10] Sometimes that does happen to relievers, even the best of relievers. How about Edwin Diaz, his first year in New York? Remember that? He had an awful 2019. He's sunk. Yeah, but he's been dominant ever since. Josh Hader's had a down year in his career. It just happens sometimes with guys. Mason Miller got off to a really bad start this year. But he's picked it up ever since. He hasn't let it carry over. Because 2025 has been a borderline elite season for David Bednar. The guy's punching out 35% of his batters and running out of 280 ERA.

[00:22:40] His strikeout rate was 22% last year. 22% to 35% over the course of one season is a pretty crazy jump. His curveball is his best pitch. That's what he gets most of his strikeouts on. But, I mean, most of his arsenal is pretty good. He's got a splitter that he gets some swing and miss on too as well. Actually, slightly better than the curveball when it comes to rate. His fastball is also a very solid pitch. I mean, it's the kind of guy that you slot right in front of Andres Munoz.

[00:23:09] You can put Brash back in that sort of pivot role as he's fully ramped back up towards the end of the season. You can put Bednar in the 8th inning if you want to do it traditionally. And then put Andres Munoz in the 9th inning. It's a pretty good bullpen right there. And then you're free to use Gabe Spire a little more aggressively when a lefty pocket comes up in the lineup. Earlier, potentially, than Brash if your starter doesn't go deep. It just opens things up for you very easily.

[00:23:37] The problem is that David Bednar is going to be coveted by 29 teams in baseball, or let's say 25 teams in baseball heading towards the playoffs. Because everybody needs good and dominant bullpen arms. So the Mariners are going to be bidding against, if they want him, they're going to be bidding against everybody. And to get him, you'd probably have to do something that would be an overpay on paper. Probably. Do you want to win in 2025 or not?

[00:24:04] Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So then we're also going to need to see where this team's at after this road trip they're going to go through before the break. And the home stretch they're going to have after the break when they play the Astros and the Brewers. We're going to have to see where they stack up, where their win total's at, where they're at in the wildcard standings. But yes, you just explained what the value of having one more leverage reliever. I'd love to have multiple, but even just one more does for you.

[00:24:32] Having David Bednar on this roster opens things up a lot more for this bullpen where you feel like you have four truly dominant arms. And that makes a huge difference. Now, I will say, interestingly enough, he's been a little bit of a reverse splits guy this year. But I don't know how, or sorry, no, yeah, he has been a reverse splits guy. Because he's given up a 751 OPS against right-handed batters, but he's given up a 477 OPS against left-handed batters.

[00:24:59] Ultimately, it's not like he's getting crushed against righties, but I did think it was just a little bit interesting. I'm not saying that's going to deter you from trading for him. I'm not saying that's going to only force him to throw in certain pockets as a reliever. I just thought it was an interesting note that it's a little bit Eric Swanson-esque, where he was so much better against the other side of the lineup. If David Bednar is a Houston Astro on August 1st, I'm going to lose my mind. Oh, you'll be pissed. Because they already have a great bullpen, and they'd add another guy. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:25:29] I'd be pretty mad. Yeah. So, look, it would suck to trade whatever prospects you trade away, but you're going to have to get a little bit uncomfortable if you're serious about winning. I'm going to keep reminding people as we get towards this deadline. I love so many of these prospects. We've interacted with them. We've done content with them. I wish nothing but the best and success for all of them. But physically, they cannot all fit on your roster. They cannot.

[00:25:56] So, at some point, you're going to have to partway with some of them. Right. So, here's a David Bednar stat for you before we wrap this up. So, David Bednar's FIP for the year is 207. And that is a lower FIP than both Andres Munoz and Gabe Spire. So, if you're wondering how good is David Bednar, well, there's some categories where he's been better than a couple of the Mariners' best relievers this year. That's pretty good. That is pretty good. Very good.

[00:26:26] Speaking of prospects that will be in your system soon, we do have an MLB draft spotlight. To highlight here at number five before we get to hyphen. But, Lyle, I do believe you have something to read first. I do. Let's take a pause. Tell you guys about our great friends over at Pogaccia's Pub 85. You guys know. It's in Kirkland. It's an awesome spot to go hang out. Whether you want to watch the games. Whether you want to plan a night out with your friends. A day out with your friends. If you like the lunch hour, that's totally fine. If you like happy hours, well, guess what? They're really long. And they've got awesome deals. 2 to 6 p.m.

[00:26:55] Monday through Friday happy hours with drinks that are three and four bucks. Yeah. Three and four bucks. 2 to 6 p.m. On Monday through Friday. Along with you want to play some pool. You want to play darts. Again, you want to watch some games. It's all there for you. That's over at Pogaccia's Pub 85 in Kirkland. Another reason the Mariners should be really aggressive at the deadline is because they're going to add probably two more top 100 prospects in the draft two weeks from now. Or will be about a week and a half from when this episode comes out.

[00:27:23] And one of the guys they could potentially pick that would definitely be a top 100 prospect is our number five MLB draft spotlight, Mr. Jamie Arnold. It's getting exciting, isn't it? We're getting to names like Jamie Arnold who, by the way, a month ago was widely thought to have a chance to be the number one pick in this draft. Maybe that still happens. Maybe the Nationals end up loving him that much. But I'll tell you what, man.

[00:27:51] Is there some risk associated with Jamie Arnold? Sure. What's the upside? Ha! I mean, you're talking Chris Sale. And I know it's unfair to throw that comp out there. But the stuff, the command, the release angle. It is a unique project. And the Mariners have a mold for starting pitchers that they've usually more gone with. With the right handers that have the fastball slider combo.

[00:28:18] That usually the mechanics are pretty clean, pretty uniform, pretty universal. Jamie Arnold's a little bit different. But if you take the chance on him and it works, the upside is a top end starter. It's still a little bit of a project. Like, you would look at Jamie Arnold and it's going to have to be a little bit different from a development standpoint of how you develop your other pitchers just based off the uniqueness of his profile. You have things you need to figure out.

[00:28:47] You have things to figure out how he's going to work with your models and how repeatable his slot is as he continues throughout pro ball. These are all things you would have to answer if you're going to pick him. But the reasons you're going to pick him is because he's got a 60-grade fastball that rides with the low angle where he releases it. It really jumps on hitters. He's got a sweeping slider. That's his best pitch. It's his highest graded pitch from a scouting perspective. They have that at 65. He's got a plus changeup as well.

[00:29:17] Not quite as good as the sweeper, but still a solid pitch, therefore, for Jamie Arnold. And to think that before the season started, this guy was higher rated than Kate Anderson, higher rated than just about anybody in the college ranks, higher than anyone in the high school ranks, and was potentially the number one overall pick. This is the guy that everybody wanted in Mariners land before the season started, now that the season's played out. I mean, he was still pretty damn good this year.

[00:29:43] Wasn't as good as he was last year, but he was still pretty darn elite for Florida State. Cal Raleigh would approve of this, I think. Another seminal. I would hope so. And I hope Cal Raleigh's ready to catch Jamie Arnold if they draft him, because again, it's going to be pretty unique. But I will say, Jamie Arnold, I mean, I know the numbers were a little bit better strikeout-wise last year. The ERA was exactly the same. And I know ERA is not the end-all, be-all stat. I know it's not perfect.

[00:30:14] But, man, this is a guy that, if everything goes right, has some... When we talk about taking a swing, Jamie Arnold is taking a swing. Because is there a chance that things go a little bit awry? Is there a chance there could be some injuries that pop up? Sure. With those deliveries, with those mechanics, it's possible. Injuries happen with a lot of pitchers nowadays. But with that fastball-slider combo, the ability to work deep into games, the command that he has,

[00:30:43] you have a chance to get a top-end starter here. And a pretty unique one. And here's not a perfect comp for you. This is my non-scouting comp that comes out and talks about Jamie Arnold. When we talk about uniqueness, right? There are some of these pitchers from the top end of the 2020... This would have been the 2023 draft that have already made the big leagues this year. There are some guys in the 2024 draft that have already made the big leagues this year. I'm thinking of a guy...

[00:31:12] You remember the name Cooper Jerpy, Lyle? Yeah, from Oregon State. So I got to see him when I was down there working in Corvallis. Man, this dude was a dominant college pitcher. It was a similar profile to Jamie Arnold. It was fastball sweeper from a low left-handed slot. And while some of these older college pitchers have made it up to the big leagues, I believe he's hurt this year. I don't know what his injury is. He has not thrown yet this year.

[00:31:38] But Cooper Jerpy's only made it to about throwing 14 innings in AA two seasons after he's drafted. Right? That's the kind of space he's at right now. When we talk about clean deliveries, there being a little bit less risk in that. The other side is the Cooper Jerpy experiment, which might not be perfect. Someone might have a better idea of that. But in terms of recent draft memory of the low slot, high first-round pick,

[00:32:05] I think that from a major college university, that would be it right there. And he's got no issues working deep into games, Jamie Arnold. He's worked into the seventh inning plenty. You see the fastball get up to 97 miles an hour. Again, it's big stuff. Some of the metrics, by the way, there were some videos that popped up over the last few months of stuff he was doing at driveline. And some of the metrics on those pitches, those driveline guys were just like, they couldn't believe what they were watching. Their jaw was on the floor almost. And they were like, oh my god.

[00:32:35] Because the numbers that were popping up on some of Jamie Arnold's metrics behind the pitches he was throwing were off the charts. Again, the idea behind a Jamie Arnold-type pick is to dream on who he could be at the top of a rotation. And in his last start in his college career, when he faced Oregon State, six and two-thirds, nine punch-outs, one run allowed. He can work deep into games. He's played at high levels. He's played against big-time competition. And he was in that super regional this year. Checks a lot of boxes.

[00:33:05] I know there's some risk with the delivery and with the potential injuries that can pop up as a result. But this is taking a swing if you get Jamie Arnold. And you've talked about plenty of times, if you're picking there at number three, you want to see them take a swing. You want them to shoot for the stars, shoot for the moon. It very much helps you pick at 35. Very, very, very much. This will be a full-slot pick if they pick Jamie Arnold. Full-slot, maybe in... Maybe slightly... No, not slightly.

[00:33:34] No, not slightly over, I don't think. Probably about even. Yeah. It'll probably be a full-slot pick. Because he's expected to go right around here. And again, when I say take a swing, it's just the idea of when the Mariners pick in the teams, it's not like they haven't found some awesome prospects in those ranges. And you don't need me to list off everybody they've found. You guys know the names. But when you pick this high, I'd rather not see them take the safe pick. And I'd honestly rather see them not take some under-slot pick.

[00:34:04] When you have a pick like this, take the cream of the crop talent at the top of the draft and take the guy that you have the most faith in to be an impact player in the big leagues, to be a star in the big leagues. And whether that's going to be Jamie Arnold or some of the guys we highlight in our final few spotlights, decide on who that is. Roll with it. This is our number five MLB draft spotlight. Very, very, very exciting. We are under two weeks until the draft.

[00:34:34] That's very exciting. That is a very exciting concept to think about. Where these draft profiles or draft spotlights hopefully pay off. And hopefully the Mariners pick one of the 12 guys we mentioned. I hope so. Yeah, I would hope so too. And hopefully for all you guys listening, that this has helped you guys familiarize yourself with some of the names that when they start to get called, not just for the Mariners, but during the draft, you know a little bit about them. You know what the pros and cons are.

[00:35:00] And when the Mariners make the pick, you have some information on who these guys are. Hmm. This of all the interviews we have done on this podcast, I would recommend if you're listening to this podcast right now on audio, I'd recommend you hit pause. And I want you to go watch the rest of this podcast over on YouTube. We interviewed Ryan Rollinsmith last week, hyphen, Friday, at the new hall on Occidental where we had our live show on Saturday. That was awesome. Loved the turnout. Loved all the questions we got.

[00:35:30] The interaction from fans. The Corona integration. It was a fantastic time. But we were there also the day before interviewing with Ryan Rollinsmith. We were on the top step. We taped to that first. We think that will be out on Friday. Not totally sure. But we think it'll be out on Friday. But we also got to sit down with hyphen for this podcast for a fantastic conversation. Hyphen's got some great production value for his podcast. And we got to use that equipment to interview him there last week.

[00:35:58] It looks so dang good. We talked about some second half storylines, some Mariners trade targets. We roasted Lau for his lack of knowledge on Australian terminology. It was great. Oh, it was a blast. Hyphen's the man. One of many awesome perks of doing this podcast now is so many of the people we've gotten to know even better and gotten to meet. And getting to know Hyphen on a much further level than the few times we've met him over the years has been awesome. Because he's a blast.

[00:36:28] He's a personality. He knows the game extremely well. He's been awesome on the air all the time. I mean, he's been awesome on the air ever since he started getting involved. But now that he's a regular on the broadcast, I love listening to him. And we had a really, really fun conversation. So we're looking forward to having you guys hear that one. Yeah, you get to see what, like, top-level production looks like in this interview. Like, I think TJ and I have invested in some good cameras and some good mics. Don't get us wrong.

[00:36:56] But this is just a little bit of a step different. By the way, when you say you think the top step is going to be out on Friday or this week, the interview we did with Hyphen on his show. And what you mean by that is you think it should be out on Root Sports this week. And that's what we're anticipating. We just have to find out when exactly it's going to air. But when it does, we'll let you all know. We can't wait for that. And we can't wait to have you guys listen to this interview. We won't keep you guys any longer. Let's get you to the interview with Ryan Rollinsmith.

[00:37:24] All right, we got the Hyphen here with us. Ryan Rollinsmith here at the Hall on Occidental. We're recording here on a Friday. We have our live show here tomorrow. It's a fun time. People are out and about. I have a drink in front of me. Like, this is great. We're in person. That's right. As I hold this up. So we just finished recording an episode of The Top Step. Yep. And I couldn't believe Hyphen. Lyle doesn't know what a schooner is. Unbelievable. How does he not know what a schooner is? It's shameful. It really is, man. We're sitting here. There's beers flowing at the Hall.

[00:37:53] And I give you a layup. Right? No, but I thought for some... You're not a big drinker, though, right? I'm not... By the way, this is shameful. I'm Australian. I'm not a big drinker, to be honest with you. Yeah, but I'll put away a schooner in you here and there. But you're not a big drinker, though, right? I'm not a beer drinker. I'll drink, like, cocktails and hard alcohol and stuff like that. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not a big beer drinker. So that's why it might be a little more acceptable he doesn't know what a schooner is. But I will say... He definitely didn't know what a midi was then. Put it that way. No, I did not know what a midi was.

[00:38:22] Dude, I went to Arizona State. I'm not smart. So, yeah, I don't know what a schooner is. But there should be people at some ASU who love throwing down some schooners. Do they call them schooners? Some might. How many people do you think... It's 15 ounces. A pint's 16 ounces. A schooner is 15 ounces. Okay. So, it's a little bit... It's a touch smaller than a pint. How much... How many people do you think in our comment section know what a schooner is? This is your sign. If you're watching us on YouTube, you're listening on audio, go comment. Yes or no if you knew what a schooner was before. I'm going to say 25%.

[00:38:52] Hmm. Okay. If they're being honest. If they're being honest, I'd say more like 15 to 20. But if they're not being honest, they're not going to say, oh, I knew what it was. Nothing against your listeners. The other 5% are going to be in there just to try to dunk on me. Yeah, that's right. Hey, by the way, I will say this too. I appreciate you guys. We just did an episode of The Top Step. I appreciate you guys hanging out and being very optimistic about the Mariners too. I appreciate that. Thank you. That's all we do. I mean, there's reason to be optimistic. I've listened to your stuff. I get it.

[00:39:21] Listen, there are plenty of opportunities for us to be the negativity podcast and take our shots when we have the opportunity to. But also, like, just to look at this team and the talent in the starting rotation. We sit here after we watch essentially first half of baseball this season. And you have what I think is the American League MVP on your roster. Is there a reason not to be optimistic? I hear you. It's hard when I look at it, and especially looking today, when you have a situation where the Astros, right,

[00:39:50] beating you in regards to a rotation, especially the month of June, right? The Astros rotation has been ridiculously good. And their bullpen as well is you kind of, you know, you think you basically can forecast that. But that, it's just, man, as we sit here today, we're looking at six plus, what, six plus games back in the West? Yeah, that's why it's hard. It's hard to make up. It's hard, man. Because it's hard for me because I know that it's like you need to push in within just a couple games

[00:40:16] where that front office says, all right, boom, 2025, we have MVP candidate. We have some offense this year. Let's go out and make something happen. I feel like if you're sitting six games back at that point, is it that you can make that sort of call and be like, hmm, maybe we're going to stay on the outskirts here? Yeah. I mean, if we're just talking transparently, obviously there's good things about the team, but I think that is where it gets frustrating, TJ, is just like the idea that they started to get competitive, let's say in 2021.

[00:40:44] Well, here we are in 2025, and they're kind of just competing for a wild card again. Is the team better than it was in 2021? So, like, that's the question. Like, it's like, did you take those noticeable steps forward? The team is better. The roster is better. So then let's move a year. Then say 22. That 22 team was probably the best team they've had. Do you know what's kind of frustrating? If you were to take something away from this first half, if you were to put the Mariners on paper and the Astros on paper,

[00:41:11] and the Astros have the six-game lead on you right now as of recording, which team's more talented? Yeah, see, I would say, well, I never want to bet against the Astros. I'll say the Mariners. I'll say this because when we were in Houston, I'm looking at the rotation, right? I was looking at how the series kind of – I'm like, oh, they're missing this guy, missing that. They had – and I remember talking to Jeff Blum about it. They're like, oh, man, we've got some real question marks. We don't quite know how we can sort of forecast what we're going to see taking the bump in next week.

[00:41:40] And I'm sitting there rubbing my hands together going, oh, man, I've heard that before. And when you hear that, you're thinking to yourself, all right, if you've got that much of an issue in regards to rotation, you know what's going to happen then. You're going to maybe throw an opener out there. You're going to throw out a three-inning start or whatever it may be. You're going to crush your bullpen, which is really talented. You're going to tap into that resource a little bit. And I'm looking at that rubbing my hands together. But then I look back and say, hold on a minute. Now here we are, and this rotation somehow is sitting in the twos in the month of June. I mean, here's where it's tough, right?

[00:42:09] Because to your point about betting against the Astros, obviously it's kind of – yeah, it's been a sucker bet for the last almost decade now to ever bet against Houston. I thought this was just finally going to be the year you start to see him taper off. I mean, think about it. You lose Tucker. Jordan's barely played. Altuve's out in left field making basically a fool of himself. Yeah, he's trying to play left field. It looks ridiculous. Like all these things building up that should say this team's finally going to take a step back

[00:42:38] and taper off, and it's not happening. And by the way, too, the Astros – I understand why. In that run, they let their players make it to free agency. Kyle Tucker was literally that first player. They're like, okay, you're going to get expensive. And so you look at that going, hmm, are they looking at this a little bit differently now, right? And so when Kyle Tucker was traded away, they didn't re-sign Bregman. I'm like, oh, they're starting to shift gears here a little bit. Here we go. Here's an opening.

[00:43:06] And that's what the frustrating part is as well. And they probably lost more talent than any team in Major League Baseball did, and they might at this rate win more games than they won last year. And there's no reason to look at, especially with what Kyle's doing between those two teams, and say, okay, the Astros are going to finish six games ahead of the Mariners. That probably shouldn't happen. Now, here's what I will predict in the second half. I don't think – I don't really think that's going to happen. Do you – well, I feel like they're going to – they would finish six games behind the Astros at this current pace?

[00:43:36] Like, in suggesting they should make up some ground? Yeah. Yeah, they should make up some ground because, again, the Mariners have room to play better, right? They certainly do have room to play better, and I think there's a lot of reason for that. The biggest reason, I would say, is this starting rotation. Ivan, if you were to, like, take a look at this second half in this rotation, Logan Gilbert has to be the biggest X factor going forward, right? I'll say him. I'll also throw George Kirby in there as well, right?

[00:44:02] And not saying because, to me, when I'm looking at Logan Gilbert, I feel like he's a little bit more predictable. With George Kirby, I'm not quite sure, man. He had some blunders last year. And it was a situation where I'm like – because he went from the All-Star year to last year where all of a sudden, man, there was a couple clunkers in there, even late too. Remember that game against the Tigers? And I'm sitting there going, man, this is just a different look. And there was that frustration that, you know, in-game that kind of overwhelmed him a little bit.

[00:44:29] The other thing, to me, honestly, I'll say, yes, Logan Gilbert, right? If Logan Gilbert gets back and leads the charge, yes. But with George Kirby as it stands right now, he's basically thrown off a fastball and a breaking ball. He doesn't have – that split is just gone. Where is that pitch, man? And it's a situation – any time you see the lefties stack up against him – and I'll use the last couple of outings, right? So he's got – he faces the Cubs.

[00:44:59] You see more of those lefties. The split – it's not an option for him throwing that split, you know, against lefties. The Guardians had those lefties in there as well. Before that, he punched out 14 Angels. It was all righties. And so I'm looking at that guy, man, if George Kirby can figure out whatever it is in between starts or something, get that different look, something away to lefties, I think he can be – I think he will be the X factor. If you can get some of that George Kirby 2023 – and you look at the numbers,

[00:45:28] by the way, against that split. That was a big pitch. Righties and lefties. It was really good. You get some of that. I feel like that, to me, is the biggest X factor. Is there another pitch you could go to? If he's not feeling the split and it's not working for him, what else could he try? It's hard midseason. I'm sitting there going, man, you just go back to a situation where you – man, I'm not going to sit here and go, oh, you know, try a changeup. I'm not going to roll out a different grip midseason, especially with him, with the command.

[00:45:54] Maybe it's a situation where you change the way you use that two-seamer. You know, he loves to go – and I'm talking against lefties. He loves to go that front hip two-seamer to lefties. It's such a weapon. But, man, as a left-handed hitter, you can eliminate the other side of the plate. So if it's something where if he goes a two-seamer down in the way, a little bit more just to show it maybe. Maybe he loosens up on that split a little bit, tries that in a bullpen session and has a little bit more rotation, but something – just something like that side of the plate because you're watching lefties, man.

[00:46:24] You go breaking ball and that front hip two-seamer, especially Leighton counts, they can not eliminate a pitch. They can eliminate a side of the plate. And so, to me, something down in the way, man. I wouldn't change grips, but maybe just what pitch can I – maybe a breaking ball, a little backdoor breaking ball more often. I don't know. Something. Get on that side of the plate. I'm curious to ask you this question about Kirby because we had Hembo on from ESPN a couple weeks ago. And this was just his opinion, but he was talking about Kirby.

[00:46:52] And he said, you know, guys like Kirby, personally, is what he said. Now, we felt a little bit differently. I'll preface it with that. But he said, yeah, sometimes it frustrates me to watch pitchers like him because what he essentially dove into is there was a such thing as throwing too many strikes, being too much in the zone. And essentially what he phrased it as almost being more afraid to give up a walk than give up a run. So, like, I guess what I'd ask you in that regard is,

[00:47:19] is there a such thing to throwing too many strikes in Kirby's case? Like, can it really bite you? Yeah, 100%. I've talked about it during the game where he – two things that happened. Number one, yes, his whole identity is about throwing strikes and everything else. But there's also that conviction aspect. When things aren't going right for you, and this is what I see with him sometimes, when he gets frustrated – and you can see Cal – Cal knows, man.

[00:47:44] Cal walks out to the mound just to catch him and be like, dude, it's all good. But what happens is he gets frustrated. He gets more in the middle of the plate. Some guys get frustrated or they don't have that conviction. So, what do they do? They pitch away from contact. He's the complete opposite. And so what happens is whenever he's kind of on the ropes or a situation where he feels like he's getting beat, essentially, well, he's like, all right, he gets stubborn. And it's a good quality to have, don't get me wrong. But all of a sudden you can see all of us getting away from edges.

[00:48:14] He's in the middle of the plate, and that's when he gets hit because guys are going to be aggressive on him, right? They know he's going to be around the plate. Guys are going to be more aggressive. He has the ability to get to 2-0. I can't say this about many pitches. 1-0, 2-1 counts, and still be effective, right? If he can expand, maybe get some swing, or you know what? I'm going to go down and away. I'm going to miss it. I'm going to go there again as opposed to that giving in part where we're talking about.

[00:48:42] The example that Hembo gave us between him and Logan Gilbert is he said, Kirby throws strikes, Logan Gilbert creates strikes. When you watch them as a pitcher, could you explain what that means and how Logan Gilbert is different and how he'll approach a count? Yeah, so I think that in other words, with Logan, obviously when you create strikes, you're out of the middle of the plate. We know that. You can get to a situation, and this comes down to –

[00:49:10] I'll preface something here with a conviction aspect in just a second. But more so what he's trying to say is – I was just watching Logan Gilbert as we're taping this, pitching – a situation where you're going to get a little bit more swing and you're going to get a little bit more commit on edges. So that just tells you, all right, sweet. I can be out there. I'm not going to get someone spitting on a pitch, and then I have to end up in a 2-0 count. You never want to end up in 2-0 counts. Whereas opposed to, all right, I'm going to fill up the strike zone. And you hear that all the time. I used to be someone who, when I was good, I could – is that my phone?

[00:49:40] Oh, that's my – excuse me. Damn. Green Layer Podcast, out of context. Hang on. There we go. Sorry. Hyphen still. That's how much I love the Mariners. I think he was playing the game. My phone was telling me, hey, listen, turn the game on. I could hear some Aaron Goldschmere calling the game as we were talking. Unless he snuck up behind us somewhere. Whereas filling up the strike zone is, hey, look, be in the strike zone, start middle, and then start to expand. And once you get to better accounts. Now, the difference is, though, and what you're talking about with Hembo,

[00:50:09] the difference is think of the last 15 starts for both of them. Think of the – and again, this is crazy to say. George Kirby is a super confident dude. We know that. But when things are going right and you don't have to second guess what pitch you throw or what's happening, you know what? I can live away from the middle of the plate. When I have that conviction, I feel really good about it. I'll tell you, both these guys have way more talent than me.

[00:50:37] But when things are going right for me, I knew, hey, if I'm down and away, I'm going to get swing and I'm going to get soft contact. When things aren't going well for you, you're down and away, you're either missing and I'm slipping behind the count. You can't do that. So you're going to be back in the middle of the plate. Or they're going to put good contact on that pitch. So you try and get a little bit finer, and that's where you fall into – that's where you have some issues. Logan's coming off a really good year. So if Logan – again, hypothetically, not going to happen. If Logan starts to struggle, you'll start to see that creating strikes

[00:51:07] as opposed to throwing strikes. Or the other – vice versa, excuse me. Okay, you mentioned this earlier on Friday when we're taping here on Brock & Salk about some of your pitching days and all that. But I'm curious, like you're talking about on days where you were on. How did you possibly have days where you were on when you weren't eating? Because you said earlier on the radio day, like, oh, I wouldn't eat before. Oh, dude, I was a nervous wreck. I remember being in Yankee Stadium. And again, man, this is when I was going well and when I was going bad.

[00:51:35] I had some terrible stretches. I had some good stretches, okay, in my subpar career. But I'll never forget, I was in Yankee Stadium. I'm coming off two hours of sleep, right? Here's a story for you. Sunday, I'm pitching at CC Sabathia. And I'm a nervous wreck. I'm a shell of myself. Coming off – I had to start against the – maybe the Royals. I pitched okay, but I didn't quite feel right. You know, and I was on this stretch where I was trying to find it, get back to where I was and get on a nice run.

[00:52:05] And the night before, I'm in a hotel room. Maybe there's a little bit of time zone situation. I'm in my hotel. It's 3 a.m. And I start searching, you know, Apple Podcasts for motivational talks. I come across – I paid for Tony Robbins just to kick it off. I needed something. Not to put me to sleep because I was trying meditation too. I needed something to get out of my head because I was – can I use the word shit myself? Oh, yeah. I was shit myself, man.

[00:52:34] I'm like, what's going to happen tomorrow? It was brutal. And the day before – I think they smashed us, right? The day before maybe or I'm like, oh, God, the wind's howling, whatever. I'm coming off two hours of sleep. I'm in there. I go – I'm like, I need to eat. Cliff Lee's standing next to me. He goes, what are you doing, dude? And I'm just – because I'm standing over the food. I'm just like – he goes – I said, dude, I can't eat. I'm so nervous. He goes, really, again? He goes, dude, what is wrong with you? And I'm like, dude, like, he just didn't understand because this is Cliff Lee.

[00:53:02] He and I were polar opposite personalities. He goes, I just get so nervous. I just – I can't eat, blah, blah, blah, this, that, and the other. And he's just – he just couldn't fathom it. He just didn't understand what I was saying. And I'm like, dude, look – just leave me alone right now. I remember. And I was just sitting there shaking, just trying to shove food in my face. Now, I will say this. As time went on, I started to – you know, nerves are a good thing, right? You've got to embrace them. I tell that 17-year-old who's about to go showcase, you know, Arizona 4 Classic or whatever.

[00:53:31] I'm like, embrace those nerves when they're freaking out because that can be a good thing, right? But it got ridiculous, man. I couldn't eat. And you just go out and you're pitching off pure adrenaline. That's just the way it went. Could Cliff Lee ever put himself in somebody else's shoes? Like more of the type of pitcher that I guess you were? Listen, man. This is Cliff Lee for you. In New York, it may have been the same – yeah, it must have been. We're in New York. He was on the – there was trade talks and stuff. This is around – yeah, this is like 4th of July, around that time. I had family in town.

[00:54:00] I had my sister and my brother-in-law. He's English, right? So he's from the UK. And so they got the family treatment. They could come downstairs by the locker room. Well, Will, my brother-in-law, I want to say Cliff threw a shutout or close to. Dominated, right? All the press is in there because they're like, oh, he's going to get traded soon, yada, yada, right? And he's just like – this guy would go out and throw a shutout in Yankee Stadium and then just jump on his kid's iPad, right?

[00:54:28] His kid would get mad that Cliff's taking his iPad playing Candy Crush. Could care less. I'm like, dude, if I'm going straight shutout in Yankee Stadium, I'm like, man, I'm celebrating. Like, I just won the World Series. You kidding me? And so my brother-in-law – I walk out to meet my family. I obviously didn't pitch that night. And my brother-in-law, Will, he's like, oh, man, Cliff Lee, he was amazing. Wow, just the boos and the heckles. He was – by the way, first time he's – like, he's been to other games before, but Yankee Stadium was a big deal. And he goes, man, he must be going out to celebrate.

[00:54:56] Is he going to, like, do the big league stuff and blah, blah, blah? I'm like, probably not, right? Well, anyway, he's – and then Steph, my sister's like, oh, Will's freaking out. He's waiting for Cliff to come out, right? He comes out. He's sitting there. He's got the iPad just doing this, like, whatever. And he goes, anyway, so then we jump on the bus. The family could jump on the team bus, right? We jump on. And I'm sitting here next to Will. Well, Cliff's sitting down here just crushing – like, playing Candy Crush, and he's just like – he's getting mad because he's not –

[00:55:24] and Will's just cannot believe that this dude has just gone straight shutout in Yankee Stadium. Could care less. Playing Candy Crush. Probably go watch a movie when he gets home and go to bed. Me – if it was me, I'd just be riding the – like, just riding the wave, man. It's just – we'll just – that's how different we were. Logan Gilbert has the most famous mannerisms on the team, I think, of anyone on a start day. How did your – how did your days compare to his? So, well, I was – I have to try and keep a routine. I was kind of superstitious as well.

[00:55:54] Get to the ballpark. You want to get there super early because I'd psych myself out. I'd get there 4 o'clock for a 7 o'clock game. But for me, I'd go out – I'll get to something, too, about Logan and some of the stuff he does, too, in just a second. Because this was taboo when I was wrapping up my career, the whole way to ball stuff. I was one of the first men to be doing it game day. You were a pioneer? You were a pioneer. I had – hey, I had to go hide in the corner. So, pitching coaches didn't see me. Dude, I had Mel Stodomire Jr. as my bullpen coach when I was with the D-backs.

[00:56:24] I had to hide. I had to find a little secret room I could unlock. They were against that. In Arizona. Oh, my God. I had to go hide and do it. Yeah. Before the game. I had to sneak off in, like, the 30 and get my way to ball routine. Times have changed, let me tell you. I'd rock up. I'd sit out there at 625, sit on the dugout bench, just look out, do my thing. And I'd stroll over by 630. I'd get over there, do my little run from the left center bullpen across, wave at the dude who was holding the Australian flag every time, go back,

[00:56:52] and just go through my routine nice and easy. And nothing really to it, man. I had my whole routine. I still give to 17-year-olds warming up pregame. But nothing crazy like Logan, that's for sure. Huh. Okay, so what did you have intel-wise on Logan about the way to ball? Or was it more just comparing it to you? Oh, no, just the fact that I'm watching him because I love watching these guys do their thing. I write it down, too, because I get all the info. I ask them, and I watch their routine.

[00:57:18] And, I mean, Clayton Kershaw gave me his run-through little warm jog routine that I gave to all my 17-year-old kids I help out as well. So I love watching these guys. But that just cracks me up. When I'm watching them do employables, right, doing pivot picks and everything else, I'm like, I had to go hide in a closet to go do that back in the day. That's how old I am. I had to go hide in a closet because I'm telling pitching coaches, are you going to blow your arm out? What are you doing? Didn't, weren't having it. Yeah. That's wild. That cracks me up. It's good for them. That's pretty wild.

[00:57:48] Times, baseball is one of the most evolutionized, is that a word, games? I'll be taught. In terms of you've got to break the old shell off of the game and let these new guys come in. For sure. And I think they've done it. I think it has come a long way. I've been on the furthest Mariners roster specifically. If we pivot back to the team a little bit for the last few minutes we have here with you. If you're going to pick a trade target for this team to go out and target one month from now at the deadline, who are they taking?

[00:58:15] I have to say, we talked about it on the top step, which is coming up, I think, in the future from this episode. So I am going to steal that because I just feel like this team's the lowest hanging fruit for them in a situation where you don't have to go crazy for a rental. I know everyone wants a bat. You've got to fill up that bullpen. And not just an arm that's like, oh, you know, hey, he's had some success here and there. No, no, no.

[00:58:41] I'm talking get some high-end guys who maybe have some closer experience somewhere else. You know what? If it's going to cost you a little bit for the next year or cost you any kind of risk. What I'm trying to say is something that I know the Mariners are not going to want to give up, some high-priority trade situation where they can go out and get. And honestly, from this year and then ultimately into next year,

[00:59:07] you've got to fill that bullpen up because the pitching just hasn't been as deep as we're used to seeing. And you can't rely on that either. I mean, I would even say, man, if there's even a starting pitcher. There's a lot of pitching out there, it seems like. If there's even another starting pitcher out there, hey, have at it. But I've got to go for that bullpen. It has to be priority number one. I hate to say it. I mean, are we talking absolute upper echelon of baseball-type bullpen arms or can it be a step down from that? So Passon put out an article on ESPN.com a few days ago, and there are some big names floating around in that article. I mean, Yohan Duran's in there.

[00:59:37] Felix Batista's in there. Emmanuel Classe was even in there. Are you talking about shooting for guys like that? What would it take to get a Duran? I don't even know his contract status. Is he controllable? Him and Griffin Jacks, who are the twins' two dynamite relievers, obviously, both have two and a half years of club control. I am going to guess they would cost a decent package. That being said, that's not to say it's not worth it either. In this case, you would have to overpay. I think if you want those top-of-the-line bullpen arms, and a guy we talked about on our podcast, Pete Fairbanks,

[01:00:06] I even think you would have to, from a value perspective, have to overpay. But at this point, here's my perspective on it, Hyphen. At some point, the chips need to be pushed in to win. You can overpay on a trade, make a quote-unquote bad deal, and still have the most top 100 prospects in baseball. Yes, yes, and you have enough there. It's pretty flush there with talent. If it's a, hey, Duran, if you're throwing a Duran out there, could you imagine the back end of that?

[01:00:33] If you've got Brash, Munoz, and a Duran, thank you. I mean, are you kidding? You would have to overpay for him. The deal would sting. Like, it would really sting. But man, you look at that, it's like, how many more games are we going to win because we have this guy in our bullpen? But also, he's not leaving in November. No. Two and a half years of control. Two and a half years, yeah. Oh my God. Like, bring it on, for sure. Like, relievers are volatile, yes, but like, again, at some point, like, you're in your win now, win now. You know what's funny? A couple years ago, watching Duran, there was a situation.

[01:01:02] I can't remember who the Twins were playing, but I was watching going, okay, Duran, by the way, I want to say, and correct me if I'm wrong here, I want to say Duran was like, was he coming in the eighth maybe? Like, either way, whoever the Twins were playing, it was like, he was that dude. Like, he was in the Class A conversation in regards to, once you get to him, good, game over. Right. It's over. So you put a situation where you have a game over Munoz in the eighth, even I'll even extend that to the Matt Brash. I mean, come on.

[01:01:31] That's, thank you. Or Duran in the eighth, Munoz in the ninth, et cetera. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I know these really nice cameras that everybody's been gracious enough to let us use do have a battery limit to it, full transparency. So, TJ, what's our time limit? Because I have a couple more for Hyphen. Well, I think we got about, probably about five minutes. Five minutes. I don't think we can get through this conversation without mentioning the name Cal Raleigh, especially because as we're sitting here recording,

[01:01:58] he was just announced as a participant in the Home Run Derby a few hours ago, a few days ago when people are listening to this. But, I mean, are we fired up? Yes. I do. Man, I don't know if I've got the Wi-Fi here. I am fired up. Now, for those of you who are some of your listeners who talk about, it's going to ruin his swing, this, that, and the other. I did some numbers. I crunched some numbers pre-Home Run Derby post for the participants last year. And if you give me a sec, I'll pull them up. Oh, go right for it.

[01:02:25] I can think about it even simpler without the numbers while you look that up. Just think about, like, what you need to do in the derby to win. You need to pull fly balls in the air to win, right? Pretty much. You need to just hit a bunch of home runs. Cal Raleigh does that more than any other hitter in baseball already in games. Right. Yeah. And you're talking about messing up, messing with the swing, right? Someone sent us a DM on Instagram today here recording on a Friday saying, Julio has not been the same since he's been in the derby. Which, if you look at 24 and 25, sure.

[01:02:53] The six weeks after he did the derby in 2023 are probably going to be the six best weeks he's ever had as a pro and will ever have as a pro. That argument, like, it's so player to player. I can't buy it. It really is. Okay. All right. So, I looked at. These are the numbers I looked at. First of all, you had Adolis Garcia, Alec Boehm, Bobby Witt Jr., Gunnar Henderson, Jose Ramirez, Marcelo Zuna, Alonso, and Teoscar Hernandez in the derby last year.

[01:03:19] I looked at how many plate appearances per home run. Okay. So, like, was there a rate? Was that slowing down? I looked at hard hit percentage. I looked at strikeout percentage. Your team's ultimately pitching them differently now. I looked at average exo-vilo because there's that stamina. You know, the, oh, they're wearing themselves out. They're going to injure themselves, whatever it may be. And I looked at also, what was the other one I looked at?

[01:03:46] I mean, I looked at some of the other simple stuff. Simple ones. I won't dive into all these, but I will say this. Adolis Garcia had a bit of a drop-off, right? You had Alec Boehm had, he slowed up, but he's not essentially a home run hitter anyway. He's not a guy who's come, like, I'm talking about home runs per plate appearance. He slowed up as well. Not volume. No, not volume, right? Bobby Witt Jr., no problem whatsoever. Not volume either. Jose Ramirez, no problem whatsoever.

[01:04:15] Marcel Azuna, no problem whatsoever. So I'm looking at these, I'm talking across when you're talking about how many plate appearances per home run, exit velo, hard hit percentage. There's nothing here, and by the way, when you combine them all together, there is nothing to say out of all those players here that there's any kind of slowdown with that. So I'm looking at that going, you know what? It could be on an individual case-by-case basis. Because, again, I want to see him in the home run derby. And by the way, to answer your question, yes.

[01:04:44] I was just getting ahead of the whole, it's going to mess up his swing. I'm fired up. Are you kidding? Seattle Mariners uniform in the home run derby? Need that, man. We need that. I can't wait. Profile that player? I cannot wait to watch it. Last quick one I got for you before we wrap up. I want to gas you up a little bit here, because your media career, I mean, it was already good before, but it's taken off. You're on MLB Network now. You're doing all these broadcasts en route now. I mean, you're doing all this different stuff. You've obviously got your own podcast on the Top Step, which you can check out on Root Sports.

[01:05:13] I mean, how cool has this all been for you, especially since the MLB Network stuff started? I love it, man. And I will say this. For anyone, as you guys know, because I watch, I respect and I appreciate what you guys do, too. You have to show up. I say that all the time. You have to show up. If you are trying to get into this industry, and you are just going to sit back and just try and fire off a resume or DM people online, no, no, no. You have to go show up, and you have to go grind it out. You have to put yourself in front of people as much as humanly possible.

[01:05:41] Show up at the winter meetings and grind it out. And I had to do the same. Some people are under the impression that, oh, yeah, because, you know, like, you played, but my career sucked. I have no business. I've said this multiple times, man. MLB Network, I've got no business sitting next to Jake Peavy, right? He's a Cy Young Award winner. But you know what? Okay. All right. I'm not going to sit there. I do my little imposter syndrome five minutes, and then I get past it and say, you know what? I'm going to bring something to the table here.

[01:06:08] The other thing as well, I will say, with all this stuff, you have to be, if you want to get into working with a team or working with a partner or something, you have to be a team player. You have to know that there are so many people behind the scenes that are working just as hard as you are, respect the fact of what they're doing, respect the fact that a producer is trying to, you know, shine a certain light on something or create a whole show. And so with all that being said, man, I go at this as the same intensity as a player.

[01:06:37] And I know that's the chip on my shoulder to say my career numbers were not great. But you know what? I'm going to bring something to the table. I'm going to just compete harder than I did when I was playing. I love it. Winter meetings, that's where we met. That's where we all met. Exactly. Yeah. When we were like 21. Yeah. Crazy. Absolutely. That's a wild time ago. Hyphen, I wish we had more time, but my time is up here. Thanks for letting us use your setup. Go check out the Hall and Occidental. Check out the Top Step podcast. You'll see us on there. You might see us on Root Sports as well.

[01:07:06] I'm looking forward to that episode. Thank you, Hyphen. Appreciate it, guys. Thank you. Well, shout out Hyphen. That was really fun. I hope we get the chance to do that again. We've had him on the podcast twice now. I'm sure it won't be the last time. He's a great guest. I mean, he's a great everything, but he's especially a great podcast guest. Pop quiz, Lyle. How many ounces is a schooner? 14. Oh, no. 16? 16?

[01:07:42] What do you think I did with all this knowledge? It goes in one ear and out the other. Out of all the places you should have learned what a schooner is, that would have been the place. Wow, you really threw that back in my face. It's a decent point. However, knowledge was not received. Now I know. Disappointing. 15 ounces for a schooner. Disappointing. Well, 15 ounces. Now I know. Next time Hyphen asks, I'm not going to forget. 15 ounces. Oh, good. Schooner. Yeah. All right.

[01:08:10] That just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to find all of our stuff, you can go over to our website, marinelayarpod.com. All our episodes are over there. If you're watching on YouTube, make sure to like, hit subscribe, leave a comment. All that stuff really helps out. If you're listening, make sure to follow the show, to download, to rate and review. And then if you're on the website, you can get your merch. You can sign up for our Patreon. Again, it's really a one-stop shop for everything. Marine Layer Pod. Dot com.

[01:08:39] Follow us all across social media as well. Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube shorts, at Marine Layer Pod. That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.